From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri May 18 07:09:56 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 18 May 2007 07:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hp39U-0001NE-F7 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:09:54 -0700 Received: from mclmx2.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.32] ident=[U2FsdGVkX19idc/ObCCZHqd90fqwSgAa1ujwbjXnR0w=]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hp39Q-0001N7-3F for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:09:51 -0700 Received: from 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx2.mail.saic.com id BT-MMP-853297 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 10:09:38 -0400 Received: from 0015-its-exbh02.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.22]) by 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007051810093832285 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 10:09:38 -0400 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-its-exbh02.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 18 May 2007 10:09:36 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C79956.2B011D8F" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: leaving a sumti out Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:09:37 -0400 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7D3A@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0705180637r7b9fed73x7b6dcf13eb5eb6f2@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] leaving a sumti out Thread-Index: AceZUh/r0/QqcJ7mRLCP2m0ImVxN7wAAujJg From: "Turniansky, Michael [UNK]" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 May 2007 14:09:36.0851 (UTC) FILETIME=[2AD9EA30:01C79956] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4501 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C79956.2B011D8F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Took me a while to find your reference. Not Chapter 9, but Chapter 5 section 9. But yes, "la djan" need not be repeated. in "go'i troci" As to "ko lebna ta .i dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi", No. That does not say what you want it to say. That says, "Take that thing. Someone gives me a new wine bottle". (or, more literally, "A giver of a new wine bottle to me!") That doesn't imply you should do it. It becomes an observative, not a command. =20 --gejyspa =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Vid Sintef Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:38 AM To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] leaving a sumti out =20 A sentence from Lojban Reference Grammar Chapter9: la djan. klama le zarci .i la djan. go'i troci Can "la djan" in the second sentence be left out since "go'i" should imply all sumti related to the selbri of the last sentence?=20 Also, can a repeating "ko" be left out, without connecting the selbri with "gi'e"? That is, is ko lebna ta .i dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi instead of ko lebna ta .i ko dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi=20 possible? Or would that "dunda" without "ko" loose the intended imperative sense? ------_=_NextPart_001_01C79956.2B011D8F Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Took me a while to find = your reference. Not Chapter 9, but Chapter 5 section 9. But yes, "la djan" = need not be repeated. in "go'i troci"

As to "ko lebna ta .i dunda lo = cnino vanju botpi mi", No. That does not say what you want it to = say. That says, "Take that thing. Someone gives me a new wine bottle". = (or, more literally, "A giver of a new wine bottle to me!") That = doesn't imply you should do it. It becomes an observative, not a = command.

= = --gejyspa

From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org = [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Vid Sintef
Sent: Friday, May 18, = 2007 9:38 AM
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: = [lojban-beginners] leaving a sumti out

A sentence from Lojban = Reference Grammar Chapter9:

la djan. klama le zarci .i la djan. go'i troci

Can "la djan" in the second sentence be left out since "go'i" should imply all sumti related to the selbri of the = last sentence?

Also, can a repeating "ko" be left out, without connecting the = selbri with "gi'e"?
That is, is

ko lebna ta .i dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi

instead of

ko lebna ta .i ko dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi

possible? Or would that "dunda" without "ko" loose = the intended imperative sense?

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