From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri May 18 08:44:41 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 18 May 2007 08:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hp4dE-00005g-JU for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:44:41 -0700 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.228]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hp4dC-00005Y-9D for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:44:40 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so1683436wxd for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:44:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=LOEAoMcHh3zwvTvChkUSmvMIxyvQukl6pEf2yT0hSFCqOV3SYzFDFc1ccyuJ66jdX2zatLr8SqUkuk2VbabPCHddtuTiUjPNvae2Y62CvIm9pqxwPpHJE5XbJWKHe38PLVvw5baeoiWT+mlrpwW7EidDCMgPIbjKJuPVi+Zp62Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=r+0/TPe/qQ1B5Fn/dXxoJv/E1P++8i4tpahwVklX3nIDe+FBn0j5WvqpJC5DEsEQeSSVb7PaQPjefy+J/2qrzCjawz8MW5K1MqqO6rSLuH2r0q0z8wk51GL1UsK7N9sGfv/lvnoAlavqwVUlkwb7KlMmDODb27F10Sy/CyVqenY= Received: by 10.70.129.5 with SMTP id b5mr2643045wxd.1179503076779; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.9.19 with HTTP; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2f91285f0705180844v32817552mdd45cbc05f2393f1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 16:44:36 +0100 From: "Vid Sintef" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: leaving a sumti out In-Reply-To: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7D3A@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_31206_26205380.1179503076681" References: <2f91285f0705180637r7b9fed73x7b6dcf13eb5eb6f2@mail.gmail.com> <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7D3A@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4513 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_31206_26205380.1179503076681 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Would ".i le dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi" be equally observative as ".i dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi"? On 5/18/07, Turniansky, Michael [UNK] wrote: > > Took me a while to find your reference. Not Chapter 9, but Chapter 5 > section 9. But yes, "la djan" need not be repeated. in "go'i troci" > > As to "ko lebna ta .i dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi", No. That does not > say what you want it to say. That says, "Take that thing. Someone gives me > a new wine bottle". (or, more literally, "A giver of a new wine bottle to > me!") That doesn't imply you should do it. It becomes an observative, not > a command. > > > > --gejyspa > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto: > lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] *On Behalf Of *Vid Sintef > *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 9:38 AM > *To:* lojban-beginners@lojban.org > *Subject:* [lojban-beginners] leaving a sumti out > > > > A sentence from *Lojban Reference Grammar* Chapter9: > > la djan. klama le zarci .i la djan. go'i troci > > Can "la djan" in the second sentence be left out since "go'i" should imply > all sumti related to the selbri of the last sentence? > > Also, can a repeating "ko" be left out, without connecting the selbri with > "gi'e"? > That is, is > > ko lebna ta .i dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi > > instead of > > ko lebna ta .i ko dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi > > possible? Or would that "dunda" without "ko" loose the intended imperative > sense? > ------=_Part_31206_26205380.1179503076681 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Would ".i le dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi" be equally observative as ".i dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi"?




On 5/18/07, Turniansky, Michael [UNK] <MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com> wrote:

  Took me a while to find your reference.  Not Chapter 9, but Chapter 5 section 9.  But yes, "la djan" need not be repeated. in "go'i troci"

As to "ko lebna ta .i dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi", No.  That does not say what you want it to say.  That says, "Take that thing.  Someone gives me a new wine bottle". (or, more literally, "A giver of a new wine bottle to me!")  That doesn't imply you should do it.  It becomes an observative, not a command.

 

                --gejyspa

 

 

 

From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Vid Sintef
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:38 AM
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] leaving a sumti out

 

A sentence from Lojban Reference Grammar Chapter9:

la djan. klama le zarci .i la djan. go'i troci

Can "la djan" in the second sentence be left out since "go'i" should imply all sumti related to the selbri of the last sentence?

Also, can a repeating "ko" be left out, without connecting the selbri with "gi'e"?
That is, is

ko lebna ta .i dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi

instead of

ko lebna ta .i ko dunda lo cnino vanju botpi mi

possible? Or would that "dunda" without "ko" loose the intended imperative sense?


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