From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed May 23 07:49:05 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 23 May 2007 07:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hqs95-0001TJ-20 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 23 May 2007 07:49:01 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.241]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hqs8w-0001TA-1t for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 23 May 2007 07:48:55 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b21so58840ana for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 07:48:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=O3EIyGd/fk4nmghsMhQTlF5DjMhF4uH9Ka+3OLvPAHJhZbJD3zzaqCxhUIMseo965X6FpaznquSkgeWSug/7K2SEF02dZOfUC9Z4U8eInvR1i50Q/XrkRyPYT4Md5yu42ouOSbSQT/vFS4/6Sgeey2JKz/Ciy6zu/5DtACN+5mg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=W/i7CTjFyiZ5ULjfDXLHErWbSfq2vi7KwWiv0ksHT55C1PDmPWt2z/setdYkKtSNiMXPdc7QtFM0xAGJ0/ePz3DN8rnnkLv+0r7y7anU59iGYVlyV26hZvd2ZHcLYLqIX7YyADSXspa4vKT05rpS84sz5bHi8Z1pQ9pnUNsenFU= Received: by 10.100.108.11 with SMTP id g11mr489188anc.1179931719948; Wed, 23 May 2007 07:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 23 May 2007 07:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <537d06d00705230748m3663c21cyd795cb06767bbedd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 16:48:39 +0200 From: "Philip Newton" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lojbanization In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0705230545h102beb4q6548c42b932bf299@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0705230545h102beb4q6548c42b932bf299@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4608 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: philip.newton@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 5/23/07, Vid Sintef wrote: > How would you translate "Spiral Dynamics" and "Holon" (concepts related to > Ken Wilber's philosophy) in Lojban? > {lo sarlu (dynamics)} > {(something that is simultaneously a whole and a part)} I'm curious why you feel the need to express those concepts in Lojban. When I started learning French, I didn't want to know how to say "dialectical materialism", I wanted to know how to say "I am going to the shop to buy some bread". What would you do with the translations once you had them? > Also, how would you lojbanize a name beginning with "h", like "Hemingway" or > "Hegel"? Is it ok to use the apostrophe at the beginning of a word? No; it only comes between vowels. > Or must we interpret the sound as "x", That's one possibility. Or adding a prothetic vowel, e.g. {.e'eminueis.} or the like, if you'd prefer to use the apostrophe. (If prothetic vowels work for "Espanish", why not?) > risking an even more phonological distortion? I wouldn't worry about phonological distortion, if I were you. Unless you go around pronouncing "Hegel" in the German way (without even a trace of an English-style diphthong in the first syllable), and saying "København" (with proper Danish pronunciation) instead of "Copenhagen". Different languages have different phonotactics, and mould borrowed words to fit. It's a fact of life. mu'o mi'e .filip. who's not too worried about the fact that Lojban has no specifically lax [I] vowel for use in his name, and uses [i] instead.