From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat May 26 11:43:24 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 26 May 2007 11:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hs1EN-0004kI-4z for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 26 May 2007 11:43:17 -0700 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hs1E6-0004k2-JO for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 26 May 2007 11:42:59 -0700 Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 11:42:54 -0700 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: BPFK Taskmaster Message-ID: <20070526184253.GB16023@digitalkingdom.org> References: <99240.38355.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <99240.38355.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: Robin Lee Powell X-archive-position: 4711 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Just because no-one has branded something as Completely And Totally Offical doesn't mean there's not a best place to find it. Again, you assume more authoritarianism than actually is the case in this community. Also, please stop top-posting. http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html -Robin On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 02:08:30PM -0700, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: > What do you mean by "...jbovlaste is to be a central repository of > The Right Word(s)". My understanding from previous communications > was that ther are no 'official' lujvo and that therefore they are > just proposede words. Having said that, there are other lujvo > lists, so in what way are these right.....relative to them? > > mu'o mi'e .andrus. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Robin Lee Powell > To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:34:09 PM > Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: BPFK Taskmaster > > > On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 05:48:21AM -0700, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: > > coi rodo > > > > I'm excited that something is finally happening to ensure that > > tasks are actually done (I hope this isn't premature). Since > > starting on lojban about 6 months ago, I've communicated my > > concerns about the inadequacy of learning materials (e.g. no > > simple 'approved' texts for beginning beginners) and problems with > > vocabulary (e.g. the error in having {kisto} mean both Pakistani > > and Pushtu, the inappropriateness of having {xingu'e} mean India). > > The responses by 'the powers that be', while sympathetic, have > > left me with the impression that the mechanisms or processes for > > getting these things resolved are weak or non-existent. > > That is very true, and has (almost) nothing to do with the BPFK. > > We are all volunteers: no-one, to my knowledge, has ever received > compensation other than satisfaction for Lojban work. This means > that if no-one feels like working on beginner material, it doesn't > get done. Simple as that. (Having said that, I think > http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/book1.html > is pretty good, but I haven't been a rank beginner for a long time). > > On the other hand, most of the really skilled Lojbanists *are* BPFK > members, and most of us prioritize BPFK work about other Lojban > work. The problem is that BPFK work is hard and slow, so many of us > end up not doing much of anything at all. It's my hope and belief > that after the BPFK is done an explosion of things like beginner > materials will occur. > > As for vocabulary nits specifically, those are at least partly the > BPFK's purview. In the extra-specific case of cultural gismu, > however, those are known to be fundamentally flawed *by their > nature*; it is expected for speakers to understand this and not be > assholes about it. Regardless, the BPFK won't be putting serious > work into them until the cmavo are done. > > > So while the appointment of a taskmaster is essential, the > > definition of the tasks and their prioritization is vital. Here's > > a suggestion. Why not poll beginners (real beginners) on what > > they find to be the biggest impediments to learning lojban? > > Because it has nothing to do with the BPFK's mission to know that > information. If someone else wants to gather that information, they > can feel free. The BPFK is *not* interested in making major changes > to the language unless a serious problem exists; "the CLL > contradicts itself" is a serious problem, "it's hard to learn" is > not (the exception is things that are actually *impossible to learn, > the only one of which that's been talked about to my knowledge are > certain cmevla morphology issues). > > > On the issue of vocabulary, I agree 100% with Martin (I think it > > was he) that having general usage finally determine the meaning of > > a lujvo is unrealistic in a community as small as ours. This way, > > 20 years from now, we will still be arguing over the right word > > for 'neighbour' and still won't have a word for 'sports'. > > Umm. > > No-one's arguing over these things. If there's more than one, use > whichever you like. There's more than one way to say many things in > Lojban; that doesn't make any of them wrong. > > Having said that, the whole point of jbovlaste is to be a central > repository of The Right Word(s); I'm going to be working on it more > to make it easier to use (including self-sign-up pages, although I'm > hoping someone else will do that). > > -Robin > > -- > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ > Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" > Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/ > > > -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/