From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jun 11 09:23:44 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HxmgC-0000EN-37 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:23:44 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.247]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hxmg9-0000E9-0E for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:23:43 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b21so399366ana for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:23:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=YHrYzkSKAeVj5xk77YxHqpKIq5ZjgQqEqiswhM0g3mWx/YVi+YYzrNjJv46C3HtgWt2ZC2aTydBvG2hWkswGvi//yzYsJWCWrBwXIyc5iEz/F9bmdeG3+9om2ezBXyMZYVyxGy6u89eO2Oa2JGi7P3ip2o2v/adsTA/xsQ0jv/Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=gYWvZ0NUKVz5/oryJj0qRLukqlKLMInMTuLRXddh9VZIDjUq57J/kDUNSEWQHCwXIlex5ng/cpuVQC045jt5V9A1j/Lae+BDu0tPvW561Ef6RAJrc5hu+iOHLLyYbpBz4YNOFfK8YNBO7Ma9hs19K6RC/K5NlMPLYkGrv/A9Igw= Received: by 10.100.13.12 with SMTP id 12mr3398394anm.1181579019026; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.17 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560706110923g60ecf972we520bd0402b4ce1b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:23:38 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: se gugde? In-Reply-To: <123198.1668.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <123198.1668.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4937 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 6/10/07, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: > > {x1 is the country of peoples x2 with land/territory > > x3; (people/territory relationship)} > > uh, doesn't it say "of peoples x2"? > peoples has a very specific meaning in english and must not be confused > with people or person, right? > > Agreed! To me, 'peoples' means 'ethnic groups' - which would make > [se gugde] even less appropriate for 'citizen'. And it would make {gugde} quite inappropriate for the general meaning of "country", because many countries are not the country of some specific ethnic group or ethnic groups. I think it's just a bad wording of the definition. x1 is the country, x2 is for the people of that country (basically any citizen, whether they belong to the main ethnic group of the country or not, and whether they live in the country or not), and x3 for the territory. The only question is whether it can refer to any single citizen of the country, or whether it must only refer to the groups of all citizens. (I prefer the former, since it makes things easier, just like {se bangu} can refer to a single person.) For ethnic group there is {natmi}. mu'o mi'e xorxes