From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jun 25 22:10:55 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1I33KI-0000Kw-Bb for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:10:54 -0700 Received: from dsl081-066-183.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([64.81.66.183] helo=pinfu.digitalkingdom.org ident=Debian-exim) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1I32Tg-0004kh-V4 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:16:36 -0700 Received: from mclmx2.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.32] ident=[U2FsdGVkX1+NYjJGf5E7exTy3d652pa7JOZhjPGD9Sw=]) by pinfu.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1I2nsO-0002nT-JP for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:41:05 -0700 Received: from 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx2.mail.saic.com id BT-MMP-1123262 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 08:28:54 -0400 Received: from 0015-its-exbh02.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.22]) by 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007062508285431797 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 08:28:54 -0400 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-its-exbh02.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 25 Jun 2007 08:28:54 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: vowel length Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 08:28:54 -0400 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7E04@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <1182709024.467eb52062c9c@ssl0.ovh.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Re: vowel length Thread-Index: Ace2k7XS7ffpaBeoQ3OOa1lSgEz8LAAj8rMA From: "Turniansky, Michael [UNK]" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jun 2007 12:28:54.0414 (UTC) FILETIME=[64F9B2E0:01C7B724] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5141 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners You state that you don't want the learner to be confused...well, maybe WHILE in your class, but the moment they step out of it, they will be puzzled by the variety of accents they hear, if what you assert is true. By saying, in effect, "there is only one way to pronounce things" you are sending a false message. Far better to let them hear a variety of different ways that are not lojbanically phonemically-differentiating, in my opinion. If your method applied to someone learning English, how would someone who learned Bostonian say, ever hope to understand someone from Texas, Pennsylvania, Austrailia, Liverpool, Mumbai, South Africa, or Canada who all speak very different varieties of sounds for the same letters? --gejyspa -----Original Message----- From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of m.kornig@sondal.net Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 2:17 PM To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: vowel length Selon Matt Arnold : > When you make a new recording of a different word with the same vowel, > make it a different length than the length you gave that vowel before. > If you keep mixing it up so that you never have consistency in one > length for a vowel, the learners will not be taught that vowel is > supposed to have any particular length. Or some learners may get confused... I'd like to avoid confusion as far as possible. It's technically easier for me (and also better from a pedagogical point of view, I think) to stick to one pronunciation. This way the learner won't be confused and he won't learn anything wrong either. Remember it's a beginners' course! Martin