From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jul 21 18:55:09 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:55:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ICQf6-0003ZH-Lz for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:55:09 -0700 Received: from 25.mail-out.ovh.net ([213.186.37.103]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ICQf2-0003Yv-ED for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:55:08 -0700 Received: (qmail 14877 invoked by uid 503); 22 Jul 2007 01:55:23 -0000 Received: (QMFILT: 1.0); 22 Jul 2007 01:55:23 -0000 Received: from b6.ovh.net (HELO mail234.ha.ovh.net) (213.186.33.56) by 25.mail-out.ovh.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 2007 01:55:23 -0000 Received: from b0.ovh.net (HELO queue-out) (213.186.33.50) by b0.ovh.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 2007 01:55:00 -0000 Received: from 166.26-225-89.dsl.completel.net (166.26-225-89.dsl.completel.net [89.225.26.166]) by ssl0.ovh.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2007 03:55:00 +0200 Message-ID: <1185069300.46a2b8f45d1b6@ssl0.ovh.net> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 03:55:00 +0200 From: m.kornig@sondal.net To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: quoting several words? References: <1184918820.46a06d247acb9@ssl0.ovh.net> <925d17560707200600o73482778k620e5dd35a4a984e@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560707210701u5e05961exad1fe11544bade30@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <925d17560707210701u5e05961exad1fe11544bade30@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 89.225.26.166 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-Spam-Score-Int: 2 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5258 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: m.kornig@sondal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Selon Jorge Llambías : > On 7/20/07, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > On 7/20/07, m.kornig@sondal.net wrote: > > > > > {zo maik cmene mi} "I'm Mike" or > > > {zo rut cmene ti} "This is Ruth". > > I think {cmene} is fine for introducing yourself or someone else, Thanks for this clarification, Jorge. > and > {mi'e} is not so good for that, because the primary function of {mi'e} > is to identify the speaker, not to introduce a suitable label for the > speaker. (In English, it's more like "it's me, Mike" as an answer to > "who is it?" than like "I'm Mike" as an answer to "who are you?".) > > Having said that, I realize that my problem with the above sentences > is not so much the use of {cmene} for introductions, as the choice of > English translation. > > {zo maik cmene mi} "My name is 'Mike'" > {mi me la maik} "I'm Mike" > > {zo rut cmene ti} "Her name is 'Ruth'" > {ti me la rut} "This is Ruth"/"She's Ruth" > > The difference between "my name is Mike" and "I'm Mike" might seem > trivial, and they might be interchangeable in most contexts, but if > "my name is Mike" is just as idiomatic as "I'm Mike", and it is more > accurate, I'd go with the accurate translation. This is because in Lojban, > the difference between use and mention of a name is important. When you > use the name, it's {la maik}, when you mention it, it's {zo maik}. > Translating > a case of mention in Lojban, {zo maik cmene mi}, with a case of use in > English, "I'm Mike", blurs the distinction and that's probably not a good > idea in a course for beginners. I see your point and will change this. Martin developing the e-learning at http://www.sondal.net/lojban/