From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jul 29 13:42:22 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IFFao-0004O6-2b for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:42:22 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.249]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IFFal-0004Nx-Ph for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:42:21 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b21so270996ana for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:42:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=l+5nVJFisKakL6NrYUQTs5lPkQ6RcAggPk5Wg4y0VGFtNoxooNHFxMcwFG5uD7+5Av2fLpdvzquGfJiBn3aWhQONEwIbwbQrhRMQIU6R/UQl13hq+59CE5C+4yAxbsmEyc234Rauh07YjG5rcshURscbFFqBKUBVZkHE6Anr8/o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=sM5ctPIuRFyqf4EFeQcWXaTHArhQDRbbPD/gHX+uRAbP+Y38KZvcH+RDuCouQw/pO578EGQxIw2u3hp9IVYKcQ0ElqIx4f0YBYUUosASIKHZ90QTO6MQX7oQtBMjZ2ugenNT9aTcsSDFvLSo3XS4P+Q+ucCeXV89OlmdjY2ZUjo= Received: by 10.100.13.12 with SMTP id 12mr4238616anm.1185741737984; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.17 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560707291342w551f1005mf47ed1abd821ebcb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 17:42:17 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: mo'i ni'a In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0707290519m55c6905ah48064182a69003e7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0707290519m55c6905ah48064182a69003e7@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5271 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 7/29/07, Vid Sintef wrote: > > as he descended the hill, a sadness came upon him > mo'i ni'a lo nu badri cu cfari > Isn't a > terminator like { ku } needed here after that pair of tenses so that a > grammatical room for the elided sumti { le cmana } "the hill" is > preserved instead of being overlapped with { lo nu badri }? Yes. > Since this instance of { mo'i ni'a } is directly followed by the sumti > { lo nu badri } and therefore identical to the structure of { mo'i > ti'a le barja }, I tend to read it as something like "as he went under > the state of sadness, [something unspecified] began". But where does the "he" that goes under the state of sadness comes from? It's the beginning of the something unspecified that would be moving under that state. I don't remember ever seeing any convincing use of {mo'i} yet. With selbri that indicate movement, it is not needed, and with selbri that don't indicate movement, such as {cfari}, it normally makes little or no sense. I suggest something like: ko'a ca lo nu nitcpare le cmana cu co'a lifri lo nu badri mu'o mi'e xorxes