From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Oct 20 06:57:07 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IjEp8-0007sh-MG for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:57:07 -0700 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.191]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IjEp6-0007sI-1f for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:57:06 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so656653rvf for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:57:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=/bc4HnCwZaD51zu3EwrkYnUW9ZubsVUpyqf6L4LXpkw=; b=iolWyi8+FfLOpExfT+P3pef3UpKdeeZkKatPELIZZXTUmwgXT60WUc0s0TxPza3YDjvaZxDp7YhBpocc9jIIYU/w7YlIxMi7cS7SpX1FWMFveyh788axjVm9BVNPVs5+PZWPVs8q2cAVHJIlkf6Tpdvg3Na9AAU8VACTrUxZ9kI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=XYDvC+qIfKrCRrl46zu0mMLNZZ82taALUjcbQb3M5TJlEJbumcgZ22fHTK1r6a9HDCQp2rLRdYZ+wj2HU6gtxZhgVMUvDf8xjMn/8oIpk3xApXu8CSdnAT1vy/Jm3QDaaa64yptJizEeIKBAez7A9KK2pvZu4Hc3EW2GxCEvfuk= Received: by 10.141.122.20 with SMTP id z20mr1529068rvm.1192888623070; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.158.21 with HTTP; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:57:03 -0400 From: "Matt Arnold" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: some questions In-Reply-To: <2204fa080710200633i681486e4l234f44613140eb5e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2204fa080710200633i681486e4l234f44613140eb5e@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5507 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 10/20/07, Jared Angell wrote: > Can anyone here think in Lojban, and if so what is that like? Not easily. I can think of two or three people who can achieve it from time to time with great effort. But the plain fact is that it would require practice in real-time communication rather than reading and writing. Because there are so few Lojbanists, all of whom are connected over the internet when they are connected at all, at this time there are few opportunities to use Lojban in a way that cultivates thinking in it. > Wouldn't it be fairly easy to write a piece of software to translate Lojban > texts into English? http://www.lojban.org/jboski translates Lojban into an English gloss. However, this is not proper English-- that would require solving the problem of a computer understanding how to formulate proper English sentences. > Why is it that it is so difficult to translate texts into Lojban? My > understanding is that it is... Because Lojban is extremely alien. It's grammatical concepts and structures have never existed in any naturally-occurring language. > Also...isn't keeping track of the place structures for every single word is > Lojban damn near impossible???? Difficult perhaps, for some. But it has been proven to be possible. Most gismu follow a predictable place-structure pattern so they don't have to all be memorized. -Eppcott