From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Oct 23 15:30:49 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkSGt-0007Af-6f for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:30:48 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.191]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkSGn-0007AM-19 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:30:46 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 4so926nfv for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:30:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=b8082bQ4zXKzhjXD8hHe6/IjhrI7DIPTI2OUCE9k7K0=; b=o/agFg2iQHGfRVxAPLB0TTcfzSnsq4pMicb32OP+b/buaWDb+yXHEgKbBNduDDpjdL2b/mjbpKvTucsdGRxAKUtdK6ekg+ox0vJ+6leAlUvCQ8FPJvl1pqE6S9f/3sttbkmApLKzjaPWfuDV3zoPwp6Rd3ZkIz94+mSBuvyl1IE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ZK2fRL8hpAu6cwU83K8OccmJoVqLFj/Ms+IvrwPkQvNS6tL2zgVKt4Jl6ZRSko6fcJOZ8H9XnnPxfUPh916GZPhK/cZfk4+eq9zEQ88VvPhaDPjDw9oL4aql4ShfhCh/Iq2/i8taFkM5Y1Kg7GUakOY0BTdOwTyULqJ257PJwWk= Received: by 10.86.51.2 with SMTP id y2mr5123498fgy.1193178636880; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.27.5 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6ee9d0ca0710231530v7bdd92b2q8d418a6dd5b321e9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:30:36 -0400 From: "John Daigle" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: learning to climb on floors In-Reply-To: <97f5058c0710231522y47139f55jd079dd89de162195@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7948_24857694.1193178636875" References: <6ee9d0ca0710222351q7547a487q41a4e89b31ab2f30@mail.gmail.com> <200710230703.04940.phma@phma.optus.nu> <6ee9d0ca0710230707q775f2d89o8a33afd586c69b56@mail.gmail.com> <5e124660710230747q6dcb1da8y4e3fca5c10e4952f@mail.gmail.com> <6ee9d0ca0710231028y4e96cb86s6417bad09115c5cd@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0710231049k120b01a5o7dbbe705522431f2@mail.gmail.com> <6ee9d0ca0710231113n4e2889adl8700f7e124a5c095@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560710231204u8176ab2v3637e3d267ccae41@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0710231519y4edad174nd1d638ef2d177634@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0710231522y47139f55jd079dd89de162195@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5553 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: johnpdaigle@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_7948_24857694.1193178636875 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Great answers, everyone. Thank you very much. On 10/23/07, Penguino wrote: > > Whoops, that parses as .ua (ki'e mi) ... ("thank myself"), doesn't it? Ho= w > conceited of me. zo'o > > On 10/24/07, Penguino wrote: > > > > .ua ki'e mi ca djuno ledu'u terfrica zo cilre zo crebi'o > > > > On 10/24/07, Jorge Llamb=EDas < jjllambias@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > On 10/23/07, John Daigle < johnpdaigle@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > la kan,r cilre fe le zu'o cpare le loldi > > > > > > > > It parses on the translator as "Name is/does learning the activity > > > of > > > > climbing the floors". That seems closer to what I want, but it seem= s > > > like > > > > people are avoiding this usage. May I ask what is wrong with it? > > > > > > {djuno} and {cilre} are defined as knowing/learning some fact x2 abou= t > > > some subject x3. They are not really appropriate for knowing/learning > > > how to _do_ something. Not even in the x3, since knowing or learning > > > how to do something is not at all the same thing as knowing/learning > > > facts about it. > > > > > > For knowing/learning how, one can use {certu}/{crebi'o}: > > > > > > la kanr certu lo nu cpare lo loldi > > > Connor is adept at crawling on the floor. > > > Connor knows how to crawl on the floor. > > > > > > la kanr crebi'o lo nu cpare lo loldi > > > Connor becomes adept at crawling on the floor. > > > Connor learns how to crawl on the floor. > > > > > > > Finally, does my use of binxo make sense to use instead, to indicat= e > > > the > > > > internal transformation from one who is unable to crawl to one who > > > is able > > > > to crawl? > > > > > > Yes, {la kanr binxo lo cpare be lo loldi} says "Connor becomes a > > > floor-crawler". > > > > > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --=20 John Daigle ------=_Part_7948_24857694.1193178636875 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Great answers, everyone. Thank you very much.

On 10/23/07, Penguino <spheniscine@gmail.com> wrote:
Whoops, that pars= es as .ua (ki'e mi) ... (&qu= ot;thank myself"), doesn't it? How conceited of me. zo'o


On 10/24/07, Penguino <spheniscine@gmail= .com> wrote:
.ua ki'e mi ca djuno ledu'u terfrica zo cilre zo crebi'o


On 10/24/07, Jorge Llamb=EDas < jjllambias@gmail.com > wrote:
On 10/23/07, John Daigle < johnpdaigle@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> la kan,r cilre fe le zu'o cpare le lold= i
>
> It parses on the translator as "Name is/does learnin= g the activity of
> climbing the floors". That seems closer to w= hat I want, but it seems like
> people are avoiding this usage. May I ask what is wrong with it?
{djuno} and {cilre} are defined as knowing/learning some fact x2 abou= t
some subject x3. They are not really appropriate for knowing/learning
how to _do_ something. Not even in the x3, since knowing or learninghow to do something is not at all the same thing as knowing/learning
fa= cts about it.

For knowing/learning how, one can use {certu}/{crebi&#= 39;o}:

  la kanr certu lo nu cpare lo loldi
  Conno= r is adept at crawling on the floor.
  Connor knows how to cra= wl on the floor.

  la kanr crebi'o lo nu cpare lo lold= i
  Connor becomes adept at crawling on the floor.
  Connor learns how to crawl on the floor.

> Finall= y, does my use of binxo make sense to use instead, to indicate the
> = internal transformation from one who is unable to crawl to one who is able<= br>> to crawl?

Yes, {la kanr binxo lo cpare be lo loldi} says "Connor becomes= a floor-crawler".

mu'o mi'e xorxes








--
John Daigl= e ------=_Part_7948_24857694.1193178636875--