From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Oct 24 07:49:31 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkhY2-0004CT-Lx for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:49:31 -0700 Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkhXz-0004C1-SE for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:49:30 -0700 Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 19so351555fkr for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:49:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=bN4YsreA81ObuXnssj22Ytji52hXcWjsWaGRNWlv1uM=; b=K2CXfDOcGdZprPYR25FUKAjYBRGuJB/wJzXpo2Yk6a2x+DDIcR1aicWbSFB4TutZvpDwxARjBXGE2IcjOreZK89E4A9zvNO8udyji8WE6uQgzSuexl1K4LT3UL0a+Niq8yudVoFa9ys37l8IGSGREIFMqq7qXIMGk40QjWq7SLI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=GFQnohOIx4Z1BQQK2u8TmPmSNhBbDbLRTxiTrZBcOPDfeug8s6ON5QcjdbbLXxBu2OHpsxfIJihzy913hQnoNteJks5p0w9Q33qrAk1uANsmiafo7DvtV1xqDuWszSrmQLM68fNQegCziEXtyKhVtQe0DRxjOHr1KxDflaEfGeE= Received: by 10.82.190.2 with SMTP id n2mr1586228buf.1193237359166; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.113.2 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2204fa080710240749s63fb9df2s6953fddefe4cefcb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:49:19 -0400 From: "Jared Angell" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: usefulness In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2204fa080710240614t4b9c184erd7d3acf2ac03ddb5@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5565 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: angell.jared@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Well, Eppcott, you are undoubtable contributing in exactly the way that I was describing. I am niave when it comes to linguistics departments, I admit it. I suppose I was being overly optimistic. On the other hand I HAVE studied Jewish history my entire like and lived in Israel for 7 years. Modern Hebrew IS NOT the result of what you describe it IS the result of the lifetime efforts of a single linguist and everyone in Isreal knows that. Hebrew was a language in usage comparable to latin over the last several centuries for over 1,000 years. It did not evolve, it was basically undead (dead, but in studial usage for biblical scholars and rabbis). Modern Hebrew does not draw greatly from that Hebrew...where it does draw from that Hebrew is in base words solely. That form of Hebrew was not conducive to modern thinking, technology, and communication. So I hope I have saved your lung. On 10/24/07, Matt Arnold wrote: > Jared, > > > I really liked the idea of Lojban but at my present level of > > involvement I see no point in carrying on with it if it is never going > > to be anything more than a code that an extremely low percentage of > > the Internet population uses to play mental games with one another. > > Which is, forgive me, exactly what it is at the moment. > > Why forgive you? We like it that way, and we want it that way. Lojban > is a toy language. http://nemorathwald.com/node/31 > > I use it for the same reason that Star Trek fans use Klingon. Maybe > Lojban will change the world, and maybe it won't, but I personally > will leave that up to you; I have no interest in that. > > That having been said, I would like there to be a larger number of > geeks who use Lojban as a secret code. The best hope for creating such > a community of active speakers is in the game I devised: > > http://nemorathwald.com/node/43 > > > I feel that if key members of linguistics departments all over > > the world were shown the inherit value of Lojban than classes in it > > could commence within a year and people would begin learning and using > > this language academically. > > Forgive me, but this statement is hilariously naive! > > > If people were in a Lojban community where > > Lojban culture could develop and children grew up speaking Lojban (it > > would be Utopia probably) then translating things and writing things > > in Lojban would be as trivial as it was to translate thing from a > > multiplicity of languages into Modern Hebrew when the state of Israel > > was founded. > > I laughed so hard at this, I nearly coughed up a lung. The creation of > Modern Hebrew was the result of thousands of years of the religious > and ethnic heritage of millions of people. And Utopia? It's never > going to happen, it's fantasy. Fantasy is fun, which is what I like > about Utopia. But taking it seriously only leads to crimes against > humanity. > > > For those of you who have no academic interests but who feel as I do I > > would suggest teaching Lojban to your families or opening up a night > > course in your local area where you teach Lojban after you yourself > > have learned it to a certain degree. > > I've been doing that for years. The largest local Lojban group in the > world meets in my house. > > -Eppcott > > > > -- Jared "There is no emotion, there is peace; there is no ignorance, there is knowledge; there is no passion, there is serenity; there is no death, there is the Universe" "Work smart when you can and hard if you must" "When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat" "Open Source: The light side of computing. It's never too late to join"