From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Oct 24 13:26:04 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ikmnj-0008Se-82 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:26:03 -0700 Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.134.185]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ikmnf-0008SE-Ia for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:26:02 -0700 Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i10so500000mue for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:25:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=z5qc4gide1gL5ArFZW7eAi6y1m48zuUwwV30qYo+AgA=; b=Com0BrUFcY3cQCQyUyy2ujGPoNbl/W8c9KIH6ccGRco+E356V5eGYkxkPduW92hA8s+F3GU4aD7G3nsZLZ9LrrzHZ9jH/K3uXSfpef+qEN4koczvlL3vl3q34ad2pWVYbfm5f1bWudrWDwveF9IpYsWWvwkJQREPpa2vto58J8Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pJjNuUdkexupWMhn2R6/vPHAdEWvacBG8tKAEhcB3fvnNMw21cb+qKHU7nYL81TrRnzsGnENQDSUZ97hG4qpfgBbvKqAkrSEiFvxTf08IZ/p8V4UxtJWQLiujHinYe4GuVjRfIYo/zWj8KgPEMnhcHnfDpSNwtAHw1CWW6dYgUc= Received: by 10.82.178.11 with SMTP id a11mr2162457buf.1193257553663; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.113.2 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2204fa080710241325k21369209od62a96464761ed9f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:25:53 -0400 From: "Jared Angell" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: usefulness In-Reply-To: <471F9B38.6090104@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2204fa080710240614t4b9c184erd7d3acf2ac03ddb5@mail.gmail.com> <471F5CBC.4070501@lojban.org> <2204fa080710240817l155324e6ud8430f14b1666ebd@mail.gmail.com> <471F9B38.6090104@lojban.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5575 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: angell.jared@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Yes, yes, yes, ofcourse you are right about the credibility. The fact that Lojban is an open source meritocracy is what it has in common with Linux and why you are correct. Perhaps if I wrote original work in Lojban we would have something to talk about. I guess time will tell. I don't think you understand what I said about the concepts and grammar...you make my claim sound grandiouse when all I meant was that I have read quite a bit of the beginner materials and so far I understand it all. Memorizing it will be a different matter, I am sure...based on my experience with learning Hebrew. Jared On 10/24/07, Robert LeChevalier wrote: > Jared Angell wrote: > > I think your entire reply was sound except for one point: just because > > slashdot had one article about Lojban 7 years doesn't make the > > slashdot community aware of it. The slashdot community is aware of > > Linux. > > Linux has a much bigger piece of a much larger market. > > > That's the kind of aware we should shoot for with Lojban, > > No. > > > since Lojban is, after all, basically the linguistic equivilent of a > > Linux or a Wikipedia at this point. > > Not in the least. Lojban isn't a linguistic equivalent of much of anything. > > > Finally, I was not aware that the growth was so significant. It did > > not come off that way to me as I investigated the community. > > We don't make a big deal of it, because numbers don't really matter > much. As another poster said, a few really serious learners would be > much more important than thousands of, umm, dilettantes (for want of a > better word). > > > BTW, you asked me who the language is useful to. I beleive that the > > answer is the set of all human beings who speak imprecise languages. > > No. Because the vast majority of them have no interest in learning ANY > other language, and will never have such interest, and no language is > useful unless it is learned. > > > As for Utopia and what it means in latin, why would you doom your own > > charity project of the mind which you have invested a sizable > > percentage of your life in by implying that there will never we a > > community of Lojban speakers??? > > I didn't say that there never will be such a community. > > > Bob, I do not mean you any disrespect whatsoever. I am, in my own > > way, trying to help. > > To help: learn the language. Use the language. When you've done so for > a year or two and know what others are doing, you'll have more > credibility. > > There is no shortage of ideas on how to spread Lojban. There is a gross > shortage of person-hours. > > > I have things in mind to do in my own way to see > > this goal come to fruition but I do still feel that this should be an > > open topic and that this topic being discussion should not be > > perceived as an afrontment to you. > > You have a long way to go to be so-perceived. But I am honestly saying > that more will be willing to jump on your bandwagon, when you shown you > are learning the language and sticking with it. > > > I do not know Lojban yet, I only understand it's concepts and grammar, > > If so, then you are ahead of 99% of us. I don't claim to understand all > of its concepts and grammar, and I am labeled "Founder". > > > so I cannot yet translate things into it. But rest assured when I can > > speak Lojban I intend to write and translate philosophy into it. That > > is my own vested interest. > > Go right ahead. But be aware that the market for philosophical writings > in Lojban is probably only slightly larger than one person. > > Indeed, I suspect that this is one thing that has slowed the development > of a Lojban community - about the only thing we all have in common is an > interest in the language. Finding something to talk *about* has always > been a challenge. > > The early speakers of Modern Hebrew had something that they all shared > in common to talk about; we don't. > > lojbab > > > > > -- Jared "There is no emotion, there is peace; there is no ignorance, there is knowledge; there is no passion, there is serenity; there is no death, there is the Universe" "Work smart when you can and hard if you must" "When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat" "Open Source: The light side of computing. It's never too late to join"