From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Oct 24 21:11:41 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Iku4K-0008JT-Ts for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:11:41 -0700 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.238]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Iku4I-0008JE-QM for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:11:40 -0700 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 36so344923wra for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:11:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=57hlMyJqOhb+fAGyxS2rzRkpskY59hSJ3rappleCb6Q=; b=Ecfmv38Qzi7ZJI52dCsBbc3hx7T09gZ7Wo36fsfoj/Q44UVkLAEsyCiF1NL9Wt1ounIUg8kfjlF4Zyy503cIk8L3cWiY/Ka4aWl63TBlLdK1X93cfhpMDBK1rv0Gfum+m7La1xwVSkBQ+Jkf6i8z41VwBlSEWIJSF3i56icJLHk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=otYChHYUP16hYmYV+HX5MUj/lKHxyOWtnH/w5JgfWEfsd0CqiHhtcXHbSWPAszsthxQKyZbPFKFfQhzRxtFsmu5fag1SKgZG4hvoK5K5rc3v7LMlQ4YG3ayzkANx0DAp/8xX1DMD/UUb09uoYA6s7L3WnpW7jwGOMm0Ba08PuIs= Received: by 10.142.252.11 with SMTP id z11mr387871wfh.1193285496044; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.101.10 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38c99b470710242111r7eb3ddc4gf682541eac1adeef@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:11:35 -0600 From: "Carlos Gabriel Quiroz" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: usefulness In-Reply-To: <702226df0710241841r3ac21a3hc2344f7d664db070@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10818_6022614.1193285496037" References: <2204fa080710240614t4b9c184erd7d3acf2ac03ddb5@mail.gmail.com> <471F5CBC.4070501@lojban.org> <71550650710241426j30ddeed5lc2fe19a09a283efc@mail.gmail.com> <702226df0710241841r3ac21a3hc2344f7d664db070@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5595 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: quirozom@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_10818_6022614.1193285496037 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hello, everyone. *cough cough* (throat cleared) So, I=B4m new to the language, found out about it three months ago, I=B4ve = only posted once or twice in this group, I read almost none of the mails anyone sends, and know about 10 words in Lojban. That said, I plan to learn Lojban as much as I can, as deep as I can, simpl= y because I=B4m curious about if it lives up to the usefulness it seems to ha= ve and because if it does, than I=B4d like to teach it to others so we can sha= re its benefits. Jared, I applaud your initiative to express your concerns and wishes. Thoug= h not perfect, it is quite admirable that you did, since you express your perspective and in turn other members of the community can share their own perspectives and experience back. Now, I gotta say that after reading the reply emails I am quite happy about the amount of intelligent internet user= s here, which is no coincidence. I just might read the group emails more often. My favorite reply was Robert=B4s (I have no idea who you are, I gues= s I=B4ll eventually google your background check), since it was sound and you throw back counter-arguments the same way I do: breaking everything down an= d commenting one by one, no matter how long it takes. Smart, clean, to the point. I=B4m glad people like you are behind Lojban and contribute to this group. I=B4m happier knowing that people like you are still around. Jared, all I gotta say is, use Lojban as you please. There is no one "definite" way to how any language should grow. It is neither urgent or useful to translate texts right now. Lojban-ists don=B4t have to get "authority recognition" or acknowledgment from any mainstream community to fulfill its destiny. Why? Because it doesn=B4t have one. A language is just= a language. People like it, they use it. People wanna speak it with other people, they teach it. It is ok if it is used only for jokes, there is no shame or dishonor in it. Lojban doesn=B4t have to serve a "higher" purpose.= It doesn=B4t have to be spoken by millions. It doesn=B4t have to be (fill in t= he blank). Lojban does not have to be a crusade. Don=B4t fret over Lojban diei= ng, keep doing what you are doing (speaking your mind, doing what you can to keep Lojban alive), but there=B4s no point in panicking. If after all has b= een done, all has been tried, one day there are no speakers alive... well... at least we=B4ll have done our best. Quite frankly... I don=B4t think there wi= ll be a funeral. I think Lojban will stay alive, even if only by a small community. And that=B4s ok. I can live with that. And so can Lojban. And, in case anyone cares, once I learn enough Lojban, I expect to definitely love it enough to teach it to others. And when that happens, I will do my share in teaching it to as many people I can get interested. BTW, if anyone has any good studying material, please be so kind to share with me. --=20 Carlos Gabriel Quiroz S=E1nchez Tel: (+52) (81) 83-00-36-24 Cel: 044-81-12-75-9069 MSN: quirozom@gmail.com "Love, Truth, Hope, Justice, Determination, Peace, Honor, and Trust. Ideals and principles which I have resolved to live by the rest of my life.= " Carlos Gabriel "We can=B4t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when = we created them." Albert Einstein ------=_Part_10818_6022614.1193285496037 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hello, everyone.

*cough cough* (throat cleared)

So, I=B4m new= to the language, found out about it three months ago, I=B4ve only posted o= nce or twice in this group, I read almost none of the mails anyone sends, a= nd know about 10 words in Lojban.

That said, I plan to learn Lojban as much as I can, as deep as I ca= n, simply because I=B4m curious about if it lives up to the usefulness it s= eems to have and because if it does, than I=B4d like to teach it to others = so we can share its benefits.

Jared, I applaud your initiative to express your concerns and wishe= s. Though not perfect, it is quite admirable that you did, since you expres= s your perspective and in turn other members of the community can share the= ir own perspectives and experience back. Now, I gotta say that after readin= g the reply emails I am quite happy about the amount of intelligent interne= t users here, which is no coincidence. I just might read the group emails m= ore often. My favorite reply was Robert=B4s (I have no idea who you are, I = guess I=B4ll eventually google your background check), since it was sound a= nd you throw back counter-arguments the same way I do: breaking everything = down and commenting one by one, no matter how long it takes. Smart, clean, = to the point. I=B4m glad people like you are behind Lojban and contribute t= o this group. I=B4m happier knowing that people like you are still around.= =20


Jared, all I gotta say is, use Lojban as you plea= se. There is no one "definite" way to how any language should gro= w. It is neither urgent or useful to translate texts right now. Lojban-ists= don=B4t have to get "authority recognition" or acknowledgment fr= om any mainstream community to fulfill its destiny. Why? Because it doesn= =B4t have one. A language is just a language. People like it, they use it. = People wanna speak it with other people, they teach it. It is ok if it is u= sed only for jokes, there is no shame or dishonor in it. Lojban doesn=B4t h= ave to serve a "higher" purpose. It doesn=B4t have to be spoken b= y millions. It doesn=B4t have to be ( fill in the blank). Lojban does = not have to be a crusade. Don=B4t fret over Lojban dieing, keep doing what = you are doing (speaking your mind, doing what you can to keep Lojban alive)= , but there=B4s no point in panicking. If after all has been done, all has = been tried, one day there are no speakers alive... well... at least we=B4ll= have done our best. Quite frankly... I don=B4t think there will be a funer= al. I think Lojban will stay alive, even if only by a small community. And = that=B4s ok. I can live with that. And so can Lojban.

And, in case anyone cares, once I learn enough Lojban, I expect to = definitely love it enough to teach it to others. And when that happens, I w= ill do my share in teaching it to as many people I can get interested.=20

BTW, if anyone has any good studying material, please be so kind to= share with me.



--
Carlos Gabriel Quiroz S=E1nchez
Te= l: (+52) (81) 83-00-36-24
Cel: 044-81-12-75-9069
MSN: quirozom@gmail.com

"Love, Truth, Hope, Justice, Determinat= ion, Peace, Honor, and Trust.
Ideals and principles which I have resolv= ed to live by the rest of my life."
Carlos Gabriel

"We= can=B4t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we = created them."=20
Albert Einstein ------=_Part_10818_6022614.1193285496037--