From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Oct 28 14:35:35 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ImFnC-0008CM-IN for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:35:34 -0700 Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ImFnA-0008CE-GO for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:35:34 -0700 Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 19so2609459fkr for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:35:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=c7urfzGQ9QODjOepSMpNWuEqCdbpToUYRdyzCZCNp8g=; b=f8Sqp4nUo0oAjYWfxhlnUOEEWTxRaG8IDfhhznHXYo6hjjfr8xl8ThGpwrWoKDh/6R5uOYIki0XcI4qAzW8kt1q3/Zznapgp0ekcsKl7f1fc/ihVKxbXKioZIvuiKhXSYKP9XE1+Hn9L8LAVUoxKKY7wDpQ6y0FOtS96+08L8o8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=cy/lcS7OAZRkiRv4wFbUuMnF4AFDzyF/Z92XDBmhfRoelGA/hJMwxwl1C5M7Ra+DAukp8JNvZxK9Z+k3UWminGRKuJVq7z1xjyXJuT9BjkqiEA5wD6mIlTR8ziegnrJj9weFCoT7Av8iBNAe1/bCDbQ0+02ddCrnUbpF0MbMP/8= Received: by 10.86.99.9 with SMTP id w9mr4238405fgb.1193607330520; Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.86.13 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560710281435o2a873ecfred2b9e4fd44929c2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 18:35:30 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Quick Reference Guide for language words In-Reply-To: <4724B538.7070800@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <975a94850710270735t210f5212s8d39dd0003c08578@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560710270759i39867469o9ff60e75905c59c0@mail.gmail.com> <2204fa080710270924k2a9b6cbby3b2926a935773b9f@mail.gmail.com> <975a94850710271658m5bdfbb23y7a0c7b271ad5acba@mail.gmail.com> <4724B538.7070800@lojban.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5726 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 10/28/07, Robert LeChevalier wrote: > > Many people have said that this is an improper use of the word > "metaphor", Indeed. Of the English phrases mentioned by JCB, only "intellectual giant/dwarf" would qualify as a meaphor, all the others ("good mother", "short man", "red house", etc) are not metaphoric. > but no one has proposed a better English word or phrase. That's not true. But in case you missed it before "phrasal predicate" for example would be a better English phrase to describe {tanru}. The current keyword "phrase compound" is better than "metaphor" even though it doesn't really say that it is a predicate. > Rather than leave the confusion of calling tanru "metaphors", which is > how JCB always referred to them, we chose to assign a gismu-root word to > refer to the specific Loglandic/Lojbanic concept, and abandon the use of > the possibly confusing English word. Except it wasn't completely abandoned, since it made it into the definition of {tanru}. So the intended meaning of {tanru} does not in fact match its official definition. > In all of the cases where we > started using Lojban words, the motivation was the same - to avoid the > conflicting definitions of the corresponding English terminology. Yes, but sometimes even more confusion was introduced, because the words were used in English diffently than how they are defined as Lojban words (e.g. "cmene" and "sumti" are not used for names and arguments respectively, as the Lojban definition would dictate, but for a specific type of names and for noun phrases in general whether used as arguments or not). mu'o mi'e xorxes