From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Nov 29 07:33:46 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:33:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IxlOV-0007XL-Eg for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:33:44 -0800 Received: from web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.230]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IxlOO-0007Vj-CF for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:33:38 -0800 Received: (qmail 31348 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Nov 2007 15:33:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=LKon2KzROCJYXut7MOAFmHo7D9eDsHB3eYdoM8fja2guwNXPyQgPSXzZVOf6ZFFi/yK5Z3wjPKRombX6x/L7n72NVUwXTXe5P3+itM1FD+eXCMOnEwge2hc8yEwkb5JvSbF6+TgCwrw7aWIiDMvbq0n+aB1nmsRWnq3TRYjddG0=; X-YMail-OSG: vtl3c7cVM1kMqpJLjjbhdr_7Zu0HTeA.oQGyUV26PmKW4WbLIC2OuqCSr87twrbNopuJfvPAz8Ip4WI3j_HMdRKUEhHX3XiiG2pB8bmJ1YuF7mk3YqfeTCgqzppZz1cT.wsoqle7yGyjSPs- Received: from [99.229.12.248] by web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:33:22 PST Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:33:22 -0800 (PST) From: "A. PIEKARSKI" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Strange modals To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1941660869-1196350402=:30959" Message-ID: <434584.30959.qm@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5830 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: totus@rogers.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0-1941660869-1196350402=:30959 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii coi ro do I've been reviewing modals. Most are ok, but there are a few which I find troublesome: 1) {pa'a} comes from {panra} which is defined as 'x1 parallels x2 differing only in property x3 (ka; jo'u/fa'u term) by standard/geometry x4'. What does 'parallels' mean? From the example on the Wiki (pei da'i mi basygau fi le mi mulno xekri taxfu fe lo mulno blabi taxfu pa'a tu'a la xavier What do you think of me replacing my all-black clothes with all-white clothes, like Xavier?), I understand that 'parallels' really means 'is similar to'. Is that the case? Then why doesn't it say so? Also, what does the (jo'u/fa'u) mean? 2) {kai} comes from {ckaji}, as does {ka}. In a sentence like (kai le karce cu xamgu se kai le ka skari. The car is good in the property of its colour) isn't there a redundancy? The sentence actually seems to say 'The car is good in the property of the property of its colour'. 3) {ma'e} comes from {marji} which is defines as 'x1 is material/stuff/matter of type/composition including x2 in shape/form x3'. So how come {ma'e} in {mi pilno lo rokci lo nu finti lo larcu dacti kei ma'e ta. I use rock to create objects of art, including that one over there} means 'including'? 4) {di'o} comes from {diklo}. Was the issue raised in http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Issues+with+checkpointed+BPFK+sections&bl ever resolved? I must admit I still have problems knowing when to use {di'o} and when to use {tu'i}. mu'o mi'e andrus --0-1941660869-1196350402=:30959 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

coi ro do

I've been reviewing modals. Most are ok, but there are a few which I find troublesome:

1) {pa'a} comes from {panra} which is defined as 'x1 parallels x2 differing only in property x3 (ka; jo'u/fa'u term) by standard/geometry x4'. What does 'parallels' mean? From the example on the Wiki (pei da'i mi basygau fi le mi mulno xekri taxfu fe lo mulno blabi taxfu pa'a tu'a la xavier What do you think of me replacing my all-black clothes with all-white clothes, like Xavier?), I understand that 'parallels' really means 'is similar to'. Is that the case? Then why doesn't it say so?

Also, what does the (jo'u/fa'u) mean?

2) {kai} comes from {ckaji}, as does {ka}. In a sentence like (kai le karce cu xamgu se kai le ka skari. The car is good in the property of its colour) isn't there a redundancy? The sentence actually seems to say 'The car is good in the property of the property of its colour'.

3) {ma'e} comes from {marji} which is defines as 'x1 is material/stuff/matter of type/composition including x2 in shape/form x3'. So how come {ma'e} in {mi pilno lo rokci lo nu finti lo larcu dacti kei ma'e ta. I use rock to create objects of art, including that one over there} means 'including'?

4) {di'o} comes from {diklo}. Was the issue raised in http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Issues+with+checkpointed+BPFK+sections&bl ever resolved? I must admit I still have problems knowing when to use {di'o} and when to use {tu'i}.

mu'o mi'e andrus

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