From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jan 01 05:03:32 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 01 Jan 2008 05:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J9gmJ-000579-Hs for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 05:03:32 -0800 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J9gmE-00056o-Lk for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 05:03:31 -0800 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so3656967rvf.46 for ; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 05:03:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=RVGqnw7SD89wxcltkCUu+EuxuLIpAuMLDR7H3haSAUA=; b=SikZFgAacinm2wLdmYBaym6xWpqH2Z8L+l/NBNVJawAX9/YDiZV65EZuiNAooULALgptbrf+TeF92z9ceACo45HdHesIbinlDgz+YHDes0i/n0uWDdeFbC0gmxlp26k5fjO4UxXARB6p1dcQIvWdsZF2WPb+zW/9Cb6andURUZU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=USKL9+EF/N3fMk4v4TI/J25/rX6Z73d58sP2C3Gpaz9D8fwFJG+c35efk+YS0hM7Kz2PIh38ylzMwKuFT5aeHl/eso2VYemTZcrYCLETnugxsO7EpvZpdhZDWLTybHPXtUV+0b7y+iiz3tj8cS1lnIvAqprbAO6Lt8mqjaNI6HI= Received: by 10.141.99.4 with SMTP id b4mr6353406rvm.275.1199192596367; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 05:03:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.190.17 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Jan 2008 05:03:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <96f789a60801010503r3132c8d1w127278d2545b1fc4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 08:03:16 -0500 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: the black hole of keyworditis In-Reply-To: <20071231234906.p1i1u6qigww4osso@webmail.ixkey.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_18974_1305959.1199192596363" References: <2f91285f0712300908l379651c5o91cde87e8b81960e@mail.gmail.com> <20071230110938.lvwyvup5kwsc04g4@webmail.ixkey.info> <925d17560712301407j353e0f17j264267c967937b91@mail.gmail.com> <20071230144732.4i70hzzqosk4ogcs@webmail.ixkey.info> <925d17560712310340j7a5cdf55l639a87dc1afd6c59@mail.gmail.com> <20071231134734.tgxeg0ra8gsoowko@webmail.ixkey.info> <4779CF45.2040709@lojban.org> <20071231234906.p1i1u6qigww4osso@webmail.ixkey.info> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 105 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_18974_1305959.1199192596363 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Jan 1, 2008 2:49 AM, wrote: > > > Let's take an example at random: zo xanka. The meat of the definition > in the gismu list consists of only the English words "nervous" and > "anxious." That gives me a vague idea, but those are two English > words with substantially different meanings, there are words from > every language in that area each with a variation on that meaning, and > presumably Lojban's meaning is identical to none of these and has its > own internal character. > > The place structure has three places. The first is the person > experiencing the emotion, which is simple enough. The second is > defined, if we can call it that, by only the preposition "about", and > the suggestion that it ought to be filled by an abstraction. The > third place is defined as saying what "conditions" the event of xanka > happens "under." Well excuse me if I am more mystified than before! > Other emotion gismu such as badri, gleki, terpa, nelci, xebni, prami > are all two places, and I have no idea why zo xanka gets a third, or > what on earth the distinction is between the abstraction someone is > nervous about and the conditions under which they are nervous. > I know you picked this example "at random", but let me try you with this example using all 3 places: la meris xanka lo nu selkavbu loi pulji kei lo nu tolselfla ke sutra litru --gejyspa ------=_Part_18974_1305959.1199192596363 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On Jan 1, 2008 2:49 AM, <mungojelly@ixkey.info> wrote:


Let's take an example at random: zo xanka.  The meat of the definition
in the gismu list consists of only the English words "nervous" and
"anxious."  That gives me a vague idea, but those are two English
words with substantially different meanings, there are words from
every language in that area each with a variation on that meaning, and
presumably Lojban's meaning is identical to none of these and has its
own internal character.

The place structure has three places.  The first is the person
experiencing the emotion, which is simple enough.  The second is
defined, if we can call it that, by only the preposition "about", and
the suggestion that it ought to be filled by an abstraction.  The
third place is defined as saying what "conditions" the event of xanka
happens "under."  Well excuse me if I am more mystified than before!
Other emotion gismu such as badri, gleki, terpa, nelci, xebni, prami
are all two places, and I have no idea why zo xanka gets a third, or
what on earth the distinction is between the abstraction someone is
nervous about and the conditions under which they are nervous.

  I know you picked this example "at random", but let me  try you with this example using all 3 places:

la meris xanka lo nu  selkavbu  loi  pulji kei lo nu tolselfla ke sutra litru

          --gejyspa


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