From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jan 08 04:33:46 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 08 Jan 2008 04:33:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JCDeL-0006BM-P6 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 04:33:46 -0800 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.157]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JCDeH-0006Al-HD for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 04:33:45 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so4060176fga.0 for ; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 04:33:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=ktBHLCPduuFwTTKn2zpmKHpwOS7YgNRK7UNKghXdE3g=; b=VixlablwxXuO6c/73qlisaaFOyP3P6INR6IXRHQZ3m1JEqAm/lhH/hunr4iZL3LREHag7Ub5CaJSX8LCK2k1Hx2G2z5MDo5/pxCCHY++1g/V3aZV1O5QxachjoHsR0pMegSso7xny0Ur3GRQlG0NSaTFRzB2bDiR/BDNqWHIiXk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=C8aYXkjIBU0waWpS1AqGoVwY3UWKmZKnrmVBS9TfwH1TtZqgMUJHAb0Fjw6kcBAuFudlqATZh4rWSaQe5gJx34Td2lLFifXGyxEi+o9xL7O4era97KonzDAKFYge8y55V+4S+LtQ4VG3AHcRw0rLlbNcENDd2MMNaM8jPcPhAiE= Received: by 10.86.26.11 with SMTP id 11mr21227996fgz.72.1199795619211; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 04:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.86.1.11 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jan 2008 04:33:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560801080433l5ca452dcxb44f726a0de1bb3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:33:39 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: zo .e'e In-Reply-To: <97f5058c0801071819q23bcdcabu348ff5c0bfb6524b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080105225008.k2wyw47jywwowc44@webmail.ixkey.info> <925d17560801060549r667c5c87kcdbf542852bce09d@mail.gmail.com> <20080107141153.pki44f5eassogwc4@webmail.ixkey.info> <925d17560801071444k71b98c50h38879b1c9451ba3e@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0801071819q23bcdcabu348ff5c0bfb6524b@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 184 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 1/7/08, Penguino wrote: > How about "Have John go to the market"? > > On Jan 8, 2008 6:44 AM, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > > > I undestand "e'i", in the light of the e-series roughly corresponding > > to the imperative mood, as imposing an obligation: > > > > e'i la djan klama le zarci > > Let John go to the market. > > > > (Not "let" in the sense of "allow", but English is not very good with > third > > person imperatives.) Something like that, yes. I can't really judge to what extent the surface second person form of the English gets in the way though. There is no implication in the Lojban that the hearer has to do anything. Conversely, for the volitive mood English does have a third person form, as in: Long live the Queen. May the best man win. May the Force be with you. But in the second person we tend to resort to the imperative surface form: Have a nice trip! Enjoy your meal! Get well soon! These would all probably be handled with {a'o} in Lojban. mu'o mi'e xorxes