From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jan 27 15:54:38 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:54:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JJHKg-00017m-KS for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:54:38 -0800 Received: from squid17.laughingsquid.net ([72.32.93.144]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JJHKb-00017I-87 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:54:38 -0800 Received: (qmail 8060 invoked by uid 48); 27 Jan 2008 15:54:22 -0800 Received: from c-75-68-233-37.hsd1.vt.comcast.net (c-75-68-233-37.hsd1.vt.comcast.net [75.68.233.37]) by webmail.ixkey.info (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:54:22 -0800 Message-ID: <20080127155422.a2emy8i9moc4g8s0@webmail.ixkey.info> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:54:22 -0800 From: mungojelly@ixkey.info To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: introduction and questions References: <500f963f0801111254k4a279c89ob12bdb1e39233b84@mail.gmail.com> <200801111723.13071.phma@phma.optus.nu> In-Reply-To: <200801111723.13071.phma@phma.optus.nu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) X-Spam-Score: 1.8 X-Spam-Score-Int: 18 X-Spam-Bar: + X-archive-position: 298 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mungojelly@ixkey.info Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners > On Friday 11 January 2008 15:54, Robert Dumond wrote: >> "I want to hear my baby talk" >> >> .i mi djica mi tirna le mi cifnu tavla Quoting Pierre Abbat : > mi djica lo nu tirna lo nu le mi cifnu cu tavla > > You could also say {mi djica lo nu tirna lo se cusku be le mi cifnu}, which > means "I want to hear what my baby says". I gave a similar answer, but in retrospect I'm not sure that's a sensible way to introduce ninpre (newbies) to Lojbanic thinking. We're trying to teach someone to doubly-embed bridi before they've even really grokked what a bridi is. I think instead of learning "mi djica lo nu" it would be more advantageous at first for a ninpre to learn ".au". The word ".au" is an attitudinal, meaning that it changes not what proposition the sentence expresses, but only how it is that you relate to that proposition. In particular, ".au" means that you desire for the sentence to be true. You can express something very simply, and just attach ".au" after the selbridi (you want the relation) or a sumti (you want the sumti to appear in that relation): le mi cifnu cu tavla .au My child talks-- I want that. .i mi tirna la'edi'u .au And hearing the-referrent-of-the-last-sentence-I-said -- I want that. mu'o mi'e la mungodjelis. no'u la bret.