From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Apr 01 07:33:04 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JghXs-0004ik-57 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:33:04 -0700 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.154]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JghXj-0004iM-7Y for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:33:03 -0700 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so2012969fga.0 for ; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:32:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=eKbF2zrNthqufp1K/Z9LO257cVdm0OLKAl/cAEUpIpc=; b=tzlHUbpIBC42YgDO/N/goL9/9O4KRvTnNDl17Dn3ROUWwDZWQyYpStabXzyugM1ihktmNThZNZ7skKYcErw2UYYZupa2Q/jT8K962P9ARJQYhocnrzdkIUlZb/AsTk6vM5WaI3RhsMXdy/CO38GbB5tubV9da/qdbtDehZKaEZ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Y8QCA3nTs6DKa05B97TtREwhhLOzLAxgOSvj9X+ke3UPPU93N0DjciyyU6ThJGBOfDKRpc+8qrzDNlvkyvWgQqr77O6GEoAPFXnccqxJXn/pWT6aG12WixC8f8UoBODk08vTsNm5q4g275jX3b6wEz4qmXUdwkFjsSQbSqkxGW0= Received: by 10.86.80.5 with SMTP id d5mr5439467fgb.57.1207060371759; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.33.18 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 07:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560804010732s789875cob48694bd7f4b8e0f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 11:32:51 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: zo bo In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0804010710x33ec6a3ak5218856e8ba9bad1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0803310712u446302b6j9a3b70fe3f68091c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560803311120m7b5175b7l6207e3cb495adca5@mail.gmail.com> <2f91285f0803311148p417ecf63k11d54ffc589b18c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560803311201x1190fa3j788d108a5c8e16bb@mail.gmail.com> <2f91285f0803311529w7550b697r3e98191ad129377c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560803311701n7fe0ef4bgd5585529580cfc82@mail.gmail.com> <2f91285f0804010045l54aa4d21q5c56697fafc458e2@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560804010602u2dd4a6bek5876e5f6808c3310@mail.gmail.com> <2f91285f0804010710x33ec6a3ak5218856e8ba9bad1@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 420 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 4/1/08, Vid Sintef wrote: > On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > > > What are the two arguments of {nau}? > > What relationship does {nau} establish between them? > > The arguments are hidden, but the relationship seems to me clear. > {mi do pu nelci gi'e nau bo prami}... My understanding is that 1) the > event of prami is happening "right now" and 2) it was preceded by the > event of nelci; {nau} sets a perspective in which the event of nelci > is seen as a past. For pu, ca, ba you can always make the relationship explicit like this: broda .i pu bo brode -> lo nu brode cu purci lo nu broda broda .i ca bo brode -> lo nu brode cu cabna lo nu broda broda .i ba bo brode -> lo nu brode cu balvi lo nu broda For {nau}, I would expect some selbri to express the nau-relationship: broda .i nau bo brode -> lo nu brode cu nau zei co'e lo nu broda but I'm not sure what that relationship would be. You suggest that the x1 of {nau zei co'e} is an event that happens in the here-and-now of the speaker (is that because brode has no tense of its own?), while the x2 of {nau zei co'e} is an event whose tense relates it to the here-and-now of the speaker. Is that right? I think that's a possible way of dealing with the connective {nau bo}, but I don't think it's necessarily obvious. mu'o mi'e xorxes