From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Apr 22 11:49:39 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JoNYZ-0000ps-Q8 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:49:33 -0700 Received: from rn-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.170.186]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JoNYU-0000du-10 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:49:31 -0700 Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i24so978040rng.0 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:49:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Cqp+oMnDgD0dNYBcUIWUdoJAWX5SErStCDI6FDtTh6c=; b=Mz0QbSq2MNNxXKVrk+Tk09Sge2haYRPu7QJeIdWlNsrWZEztZYV0ywFeN2a1VuI2K9yGLbpnwydOWY7Aws4Iksp8t7rj+RyrGhxWPD1RqSeiSwYWV+7iGSoZ5p2SjcjwTjDdSyoTMlGG10m5O/pbZr8+m3J3/tUnQDZt9ZptqJ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=D/xN+Tgp98KilbVkB0yQ/KMeVvS1ssA9zJ9y9h08r2/NzJw30pBndZTe/9UcOUCrEzPdo6R5v3V+XEgVvy4+lcu/21EGy3QODNyeb+s+/wcsdlpQDFPFx4IT/By+L9M4w/8w8nXI2FlihIPHWQmcRluLM8nrJlLrkHqBuyNMIVE= Received: by 10.114.123.19 with SMTP id v19mr71196wac.168.1208889028452; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.136.19 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2f91285f0804221130o415174e7ha3ca1fb84b9f8a13@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:30:28 +0200 From: "Vid Sintef" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: relative phrase within tanru In-Reply-To: <925d17560804221030k253afcafp9e11e6d16ea539a3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0804220829t7733c6bcx3e99fc6be16640ac@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560804220859p6a74e3f3m6416373909e7d576@mail.gmail.com> <2f91285f0804220926h63f5d474y14dd7ec85c5b2d2a@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560804221030k253afcafp9e11e6d16ea539a3@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 531 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 4/22/08, Vid Sintef wrote: > > > ¿How different are these: > > > > le melbi mlatu co me do > > le melbi mlatu pe do > > Both {pe} and tanru modification are very vague, but > there is a structural difference: > > The first one is a sumti built from the selbri {melbi mlatu co > me do}. This selbri can be predicated of something, and {le} > uses this description to get to the intended referent. > > The second one is built from a sumti {lo melbi mlatu}, > whose referents are restricted in some way by the > referents of {do}. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes ¿Is it not possible for a {pe} phrase to be before {ku}, like NOIs can: {le melbi mlatu poi do ponse ke'a ku'o ku broda}; {le melbi mlatu pe do ge'u ku broda}? mu'o mi'e tijlan