From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon May 26 08:29:13 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K0edN-0007bj-Qr for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:13 -0700 Received: from anno.name ([81.169.186.62] helo=mail.anno.name) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K0edI-0007bI-2J for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:13 -0700 Received: from [192.168.178.24] (p5085C4B8.dip.t-dialin.net [80.133.196.184]) by mail.anno.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 400A41047B6 for ; Mon, 26 May 2008 17:28:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <483AD73A.4060908@perpetuum-immobile.de> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 17:28:58 +0200 From: Timo Paulssen User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Yitzik asks his first questions References: <119C0B344EF0448ABD8F47C56483A7E5@Cohen2> <200805260710.33691.phma@phma.optus.nu> <19989B49539344FEAECAB833E0C29DC0@Cohen2> In-Reply-To: <19989B49539344FEAECAB833E0C29DC0@Cohen2> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig9676AD41C428B03CD1745912" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 592 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig9676AD41C428B03CD1745912 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Isaac Penzev wrote: > That's what I would expect. > On the other hand, animate objects (persons) aren't usually "owned" > (expect of slavery societies zo'o). I understand you versions for "I've= > got a wife and two children" as occasional. Does it mean we need > paraphrases every time when the object of "have" is animate, or there > may be some other standard approaches? Well, the thing is, that wives aren't actually owned, as you say. What ma= kes a wife a wife is, that she's 'husbanded' to you, so saying {mi se speni} in= stead of "i have a wife" isn't a paraphrasing IMO, it's rather the case that th= e english expression is strange :) If you say "i have a wife", does it necessarily imply, that she's your wi= fe? Or maybe you took her away from someone else :) Saying "she wives me" in english would be really strange, but actually mo= re logical in a way. > la timos. cusku di'e: >> .a'o mi sidju do >=20 > .ui go'i ui sai > mu'o mi'e .itsik. mu'o mi'e timos --------------enig9676AD41C428B03CD1745912 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIOtc/us6NTCHpCEARAv47AJ0UPT5Y6cHoYojjgHNZws4cdtR8PwCeLbxv N/VYkC/5yDBE9wai7AdPrjY= =5FBX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig9676AD41C428B03CD1745912--