From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jun 17 06:21:18 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K8b7b-0002AL-UT for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:21:18 -0700 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.183]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K8b7T-000299-9B for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:21:15 -0700 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b50so1867239pyh.30 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:21:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=krMnXMUFC53jNkOTHoIDUPicKPW9jHTVRgwwHrHNyug=; b=h6YxqVur/6V/8VQsC7tfJCwBTg9UYpyAHdt5g0Gf25ewytDK1yiUDp8ZKpN9GOLLg7 rfCjUuyssgBwxk7Xy/0BXm94X+kLWJl7wVu63DpefOJ7FIOPA/FVPWrzTeHaPdpBbgCG ybZxafBx5TKyYF294qFL2c/D7jaMcuUsWpy7c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=xQRMynuzpGKxKjkHTgBWqw3zW1Pb4Cc6S/stYl+tqYd7mqgG1RKNNUbfkb8hj50pmz 26S8/lAabZzLGEwsPQhD9w0n3QdrXBDnVpCwIFTNX0QB2gU4I8VO7gDojjqi4TCLeRcT hg3J5td2FAe7Jh95O2TH5iYODP1Aci/5h5RV8= Received: by 10.142.186.9 with SMTP id j9mr2901035wff.284.1213708865656; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.131.11 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <96f789a60806170621v1b470bd1nd94e1f073210f4df@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:21:05 -0400 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Building a tanru with lujvo and gismu In-Reply-To: <4857B4D5.7000507@devbraindump.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <4857B4D5.7000507@devbraindump.de> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 646 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Florian Larysch wrote: > Assuming none of the lujvo are assigned, would there be a difference (in > meaning) between {rodbo'ebrodi} and {rodbo'e brodi}? > Yes, there can be, since lujvo have, by definition, have only a single meaning (defined by the creator), whereas tanru can be more flexible, and may have more than one meaning. The example given in the CLL grammar is gerzda as opposed to "gerku zdani". If no meaning is defined, the exact interpretation of a three-rafsi lujvo may or may not be what you expect. For example, is "nolraitru" (king) "nolrai turni" (highest nobility type of ruler) or "nobli raitru" (noble type of supreme ruler)? In general, it probably will be interpreted as broda brode brodi, absent any other given meaning, but on the other hand, something like clafonta'a would probably be interpreted as talking on the phone for a long time (clani fonta'a) rather than talking on a long phone (clani fonxa tavla ; clafonxa tavla), since fonta'a already exists. That's why it's important that lujvo be defined, or risk being misunderstood. --gejyspa