From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jun 25 07:16:56 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KBVnr-0005Oa-KG for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:16:56 -0700 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.154]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KBVng-0005OH-NL for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:16:55 -0700 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so1450427fga.0 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:16:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=8W5ainc+WAA3HrNVU+SOCJAc+uPn228CwmpR9QC5to4=; b=S+esuGLkMbQwxa/1KG64+kRxAtJ96z0XyfV+uCSowv82TGvwm51Ydq9pQ+ZXqwhYSz QqR/EbDyiRZ/UlDN1R13+OCd2FBJ1367cyR5pSB/smjoz3mY7qQLPWRUm0ogza0CzYVA FGn4u+LUUDHCEf9UYxeCNT4BSAGbS3f82q40A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=qKNe1blSu6BApw3rhwahDseelTBPjrh55pPgbrvhtUS/ApC+1hAM1DWPdl681AFuu3 rOEV2+tScND1V0znsk0s/cKH+ri6889mP9UmM24sgWVWFsmB1EBDDAvbk/Mdlt2Lmla6 uMAkcWDx83QrtM980wabTTT80JGeGFm7PC4Uc= Received: by 10.86.77.5 with SMTP id z5mr8805263fga.34.1214403403086; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.89.11 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560806250716w197d2163oabe93f7b7df9eec@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:16:43 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: grammar terms In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0806250334k3c0aa483y8e879dc573e913ad@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0806250334k3c0aa483y8e879dc573e913ad@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 652 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 6/25/08, Vid Sintef wrote: > > What are Lojban words for "tense" (time/location), "aspect", "modal", > and "place structure"? There aren't any established ones. {tersu'i stura} could be used for "place structure". For the others, you need to distinguish the normal meaning of these words as used generally in linguistics from the often warped sense as used with respect to Lojban. > Can tense (FAhA, VEhA, ZEhA, VIhA, VA, ZI, PU, ...) & aspect (ZAhO, > TAhE) & modal (BAI) be said to be the main categories of sumtcita? If tense specifies the when (and by extension the where) of an event, then VEhA, ZEhA and VIhA don't really belong in "tense". They are more like aspect in that they specify properties of the event independently of when/where it takes place. {nau} could also belong in "tense", but the other member of CUhE is more general. I imagine that "modal" was first used for CAhA, not for BAI. That corresponds better to what "modality" means in linguistics. BAIs have nothing to do with modality. At some point someone must have misused "modal" to refer to BAIs and somehow it stuck. > Why were the two tense selma'os "ZI" & "PU" chosen instead of "ZA" & > "BA"? (The latter pair seem more consistent with the other tense > selma'os and easier to memorize/remember.) Because. :) > Does the word "cnima'o" mean the attitudinals in general (UI1, UI2, > UI3, ...) or just UI1? According to jbovlaste, attitudinals in general. UI1 contains several indicators that are not about emotions, so it doesn't really make a natural "cinmo" class. mu'o mi'e xorxes