From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jul 22 15:55:40 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KLQlf-0000Fw-Sm for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:55:40 -0700 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.173]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KLQlb-0000Fm-Qn for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:55:39 -0700 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so1643812wfg.25 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:55:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=kAeQ5cugjGQ5MkP582RUdCLzSVVVLPJF5AFALF1RyCM=; b=ekLONsECMN1Rha9u5PqAwjmRUHUfXsLl7aBGXcw+9VC4C8WDtEar4cmC6KNsKQXxGD nOTZnFP1rWwMekSefJJFxUNpt/A5eOTCdCjJ1jY0w5FQt8ngeKde8Ez7MSzOv/j6ov53 Rx/dQzsZ8cqC4McTI4PQ0w1bubgw/hTfPIASM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=g7mBfAwfM8E/s9ecc5suq3HKRdzIhKYzUKJhW/MHym0aNn2P5WgsMkv9ij/iQd26Ir mPMLMExMb9ir9gk+q3WByO1byB3iSKSdhBs/CfZpy3C6fp5tE9AeMHuHAuxSLx1UQos7 puu6NmKmX5hGDkNBLkvqiOrMHrzWSdUO3vwwU= Received: by 10.142.158.3 with SMTP id g3mr2061598wfe.347.1216767333487; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.207.5 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737b61f30807221555w581ce6b9idcf0f4e11cc126ac@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:55:33 -0500 From: "Chris Capel" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: ke'a In-Reply-To: <96f789a60807221307k6063b0ecp29233454f1d6da0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0807211642n258bb4d2t9a98c9589c037c60@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160807211801y5e0652e5wa868adf6e9b2c80c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807220522q6283b3d9ja3c2719107c3a8b0@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60807220548r3f94b667w5ec9a5a2af89c762@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807220629m32d0ae9eld1ac1acbc2d3af94@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60807220812o6e1e7e00jf26a0c79d24c85@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807220924k4a67e3aejd2bd64867a4b16ba@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60807220944g64b25921hb301ef3936e7e052@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807221100y6de75a3ep38d488b7c6aa4d1a@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60807221307k6063b0ecp29233454f1d6da0@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 712 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 15:07, Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:00 PM, Jorge Llambías wrote: >> I could say: {lo karce poi po'onai mi viska ke'a zi'e poi ji'a >> do ponse ke'a}: "the cars not only that I see but also that >> you own". >> > I would translate that sentence the same way, but not sure you and > I would see the same meaning? To me it would include cars that you > own but I do not see. Hmm. I don't think the English Jorge gave allows your interpretation, Michael. And as far as the Lojban, {po'onai} is the default interpretation, and is redundant here. It's only there for emphasis. Are you thinking that the set of cars included is an intersection of (the entire set, restricted by the first {poi}) and (the entire set, restricted by the second poi)? I would think the interpretation would be ((the entire set, restricted by the first {poi}), restricted by the second {poi}). Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)