From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jul 31 05:33:32 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOXLY-0000iv-Eq for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:33:32 -0700 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.156]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOXLT-0000hr-S7 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:33:32 -0700 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so258079fga.0 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:33:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=MznteU7/0sdkdKNX9ABCL8/h7+TsvmHc2+UB4TiYY1c=; b=wx1Nv3dGwsivdHXAt+wQAuworVwX6gwGuTIloK59G2C4yD8+yECQDfuShY8MyeP4ha qDvgIxjH7uDxIMG7T2K4Ho0NmTfuMXnjLlo9J6kKvtj4EvoVAAMu7AQQU9WKnJZaeLAd 1kRQ3HRYmUDcJlEYFb2dxuKxzTwr/Zv2J5BSA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=JWLBtIsHs/alEvi+C7vo/Xoy4EvM324J7eVNM5mjRBeaqzQZFmhaW6Ctac4zHhVAqJ 0idk3B5BQ6cURbJTq0UkNaUjWg78upxlLMPICFs9IffkhaSCepnyoo3fWujiRKHLqCQZ MHoiGccu5XSc+o02FAvDex98jX6pSlBRr4j8Q= Received: by 10.86.59.18 with SMTP id h18mr6054142fga.4.1217507605382; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.89.11 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560807310533q71a98a67v14d49c575f25f083@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:33:25 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban - really for beginners In-Reply-To: <200807310736.34266.phma@phma.optus.nu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <988763.30038.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200807310736.34266.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 738 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 7/31/08, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > The rule for stress in brivla is that it's on the next-to-last syllable whose > nucleus is not "y" or a syllabic consonant. And in the case of brivla, the rule is needed because the stress is used to tell the word apart from other words. > Applying that rule to "uacintyn", > it's stressed on "ua". But names can have "y" in the last syllable, "y" in > both of two adjacent syllables, and "iy" and "uy", none of which can occur in > brivla. I'm not sure that anyone's codified the default stress for these > cases. So to be safe, if either of the last two syllables contains "y", > indicate the stress. On the other hand, to be safe from what? Any stress (even even stress) is permitted in cmevla, so no stress indication is really needed. "uacintyn" is the same name in Lojban no matter how one chooses to stress it. In the case of personal names, if someone gets cranky when people don't stress their name the way they prefer, they can mark their preferred stress (and people may choose to comply, just to be polite), but for names of places everyone can use any stress they like, just as they can use any tone, which also makes no difference. There is no official way to mark tone, but perhaps when we have Lojbanists from languages that use tone some convention will develop to mark tone in Lojban cmevla, and the effect will be the same. mu'o mi'e xorxes