From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Aug 14 08:40:29 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KTew7-0000LO-Sq for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:40:29 -0700 Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.246]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KTevp-0000Jm-5v for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:40:27 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so421528rvf.46 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:40:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=O1cUWN65PQN83QYnR5+03ABKuBhFC9ns70wbnJeEc9s=; b=RUFk2B3OsoJWB+CoYTPNcfsiOphoD9RdmQdnBE3PvHfV3QHup9/jZ3X+eoSeiMnKYY YBWJ7F/7eP9dDC6SoaU3v6zBdBEyHtvW9KbPOPpO0mZGMkjfmwDKHTUytMjNFu8Kf5c+ b4qVpWP8Wqi8WnLfjCRTEczzuvkmrc7LOE3EE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=dSLlDjNXq0fV/NuTBjV2AKQQSNgVCoIq5jYjmLuve3PuTihRVmcATs9TjogMMCwsYK ixdim2wvqo/XnYuVOV+YMyfrV+XUSOvSzqxi1ZjxmlaiW2U0c7AGVOrNFJrHFTjDowpS sQlAQ4Ec3iKtrIXTh4y7p+FAT2mRFLnKwonCo= Received: by 10.141.71.8 with SMTP id y8mr774025rvk.32.1218728403498; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.162.14 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <96f789a60808140840i5e0bcd03kcaba2899e8243b12@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:40:03 -0400 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: go'i / ri In-Reply-To: <200808132244.02206.phma@phma.optus.nu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <44788.74123.qm@web30408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200808132244.02206.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 824 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Brett, That was really a very nice explanation. Maybe you should write the next iteration of the beginner lessons.... One thing I've always missed in the pro-bridi series is a concise way to tweeze out SUB-bridi from a previous utterance. For example, if I wanted to say "John wanted to be hurry getting ready in order to be early in going to Megan's show, because he was often late to them before.", I have several options la djan. djica lo nu sutra lo zu'o bredi kei tezu'e lo nu clira fa lo nu klama le la megan. draci .imu'ibo so'iroi lerci fa ra is possibly the most concise, but that leaves "ra" as potentially ambiguous ("rixici" removes the ambiguity but forces the listener to count) Another possibility is: la djan. djica lo nu sutra lo zu'o bredi kei tezu'e lo nu clira fa lo nu klama cei broda le la megan. draci .imu'ibo so'iroi lerci lo nu broda But that requires forethought. "go'i" can grab out a main bridi; "lo se go'i", an argument from a main bridi; "no'a", an outer bridi, but nothing can grab an "inner bridi". This might not have been the best example, but I talk like that all the time in English, and wish I could do so in lojban (see? I did it again, without even intending to. And again!) --gejyspa