From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Aug 20 17:43:38 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KVyH3-0006tF-ET for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:43:38 -0700 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.177]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KVyGz-0006se-P2 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:43:37 -0700 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b50so424845pyh.30 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:43:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=rktvT8B3srbtB0hLk0SAzFEyOs23m186cievwT1sSQI=; b=SH17TIDPtFWdhtzeuePFR9Yl6PiN/azWmSmX0OEl6UYGKBj+aGedM/IMbOZWCOU5Kc bvbTpe8fF1spcOuchPGKMECBsH1zuqGkg6vNHmhJqhALHMB0jz7rBnPtQvHY9wFWnoBr djpxL9vzLtOBBj91XfHcstTvLoFB+FBdaYBsg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=vujRyw7js9gHYVZh98SqbNWI22T1K6z3Vhve9uS4IzK7y4LpMscyaGgiIMXdyIOJDO NlVJ3pBVtkWcoYVSezeA1qzwGE3zvsWzHh5ctQspwGhB4yPeDHzRa7Hq9tA5+WOAeCs2 tQ4jkL5lifP4nddXwBXP08BpAI8pErMuFV+S0= Received: by 10.65.248.18 with SMTP id a18mr1340381qbs.31.1219279411465; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.243.14 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:43:31 -0700 From: "David Cortesi" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Ingersoll's creed - laboriously MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 827 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: davecortesi@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners OK, this is Robert Ingersoll's creed: [1] Happiness is the only good. [2] The time to be happy is now. [3] The place to be happy is here. [4] The way to be happy is to help make others so. Like any good poetry it presents many difficulties in translation (at least for me). Starting with: "Happiness." Clearly need an abstract -- a state abstract {za'i}? -- and {za'i gleki} seems inadequate. Perhaps {za'i jmive gleki} state of life-happiness Second abstract: "good" in the philosophical sense, an abstract positive value, maybe {si'o xamgu} the idea of beneficiality... BUT I want this abstract to be the bridi, not another sumti. {sucta xamgu}? There's a cmavo {po'o} for only/unique, but I'm not clear how a discursive fits in; "the ONLY good" is more like a modal. Anyway [1] lo za'i jmive gleki cu po'o sucta xamgu One line down and I'm exhausted! For the next three I want parallel construction but not necessarily the English parallel structure. For some reason this skeleton pops into mind: .i fe tcika fa .i fe stuzi fa .i fe tadji fa (The fa's aren't required I know; but they would add to the rhythm) Next problem: "now" as a sumti. {.i za'i jmive gleki fe tcika fa caca'o} can't be right... And "here" ditto: {.i za'i jmive gleki fe stuzi fa ti} likewise "Help make" would be {lo zu'o sidzu gasnu...} but I'm sure I've made enough errors without trying to translate "others so". Looking forward to your improvements... Dave Cortesi