From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Oct 06 20:09:29 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kn2wy-0005mq-DU for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:09:29 -0700 Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.184]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kn2wv-0005mi-7m for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:09:28 -0700 Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so2671955fks.2 for ; Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:09:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=0506lHqXGnQs3NW9PXqqL/HTG5UifUFt4q+IYXp+1gc=; b=G8d8IsaLtSd7hoUd2QLhH5X/VNcMXjdpK35HjG1IDqqps+11VuBFSapg2HVMdMsukF p0cDFR3wStaMogRqEM9kkAD7P+8To6k3JzekoKiqZrfItLvB5UE0JMOhwf2vCuM7rVdL DN/Xu8IBnhfgiVaoQL2MMcKvVclgDabrSgjvE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=CuRtv75dTgI/sxQnVn67/q9jAlAN8NHaVhK3BWSXU67mUED8c3Am2KlNgSxhw4PjFh CCUK+qk0zmQ6oKA9M66hZFYXTrZk1Kb/eH5Lcja504XdJj3cW9z7+r2nr6R/UszkCLYW t+bPVonykBt5JFba5c4r9Fc/WmGEai7deOe+E= Received: by 10.187.160.1 with SMTP id m1mr1126533fao.72.1223348963564; Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.187.190.8 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12d58c160810062009t6414b9daq3f2f2285d8fde7c4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 23:09:23 -0400 From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: User interfacing in Lojban.. In-Reply-To: <71550650810061608t8bf6ea5he4fc2be2b80b3721@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_60865_25781632.1223348963569" References: <48E7AD62.4010307@finagle.org> <48E7C137.8000100@scarlet.be> <95b2fb130810060908m76a08c7bu3dcf3c16307496cf@mail.gmail.com> <48EA46EF.9050604@finagle.org> <95b2fb130810061435g1a22e9cbkcee4148cb98eaf64@mail.gmail.com> <71550650810061608t8bf6ea5he4fc2be2b80b3721@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: f7839128b2b4a951 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 920 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_60865_25781632.1223348963569 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:35 PM, H. Felton wrote: > >> > H. Felton wrote: >> >> So, "sisku" _can_ mean "ko sisku"? >> > >> > In general (if I understand correctly), any part of Lojban speech can be >> > omitted when grammatically unambiguous. In this case, the context >> > (application command) makes it fairly clear who is to perform the >> search. >> >> If it were not a command; eg, "do sisku", "lo nixli cu sisku"; I'd not >> have been uncertain, the conversion to a command that "ko" does is >> something that I would not have thought could be elided. >> > > I think you're right, but if doesn't matter to the present question. "File" > does not mean anything either by itself, and neither does "Font". > > For UI we give up grammatical purity in all languages in favor of brevity. > No reason why lojban should be different. > {sisku} expands to {zo'e cu sisku zo'e zo'e vau}. Generally speaking, a bridi with an elided x1 is interpreted as an observative, but it doesn't have to be. So yeah {ko} can be elided, & I think it's appropriate in the UI context (& perhaps not many others). mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan ------=_Part_60865_25781632.1223348963569 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Yoav Nir <yoav.nir@gmail.com> wrote:


On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:35 PM, H. Felton <fagricipni@gmail.com> wrote:

> H. Felton wrote:
>> So, "sisku" _can_ mean "ko sisku"?
>
> In general (if I understand correctly), any part of Lojban speech can be
> omitted when grammatically unambiguous.  In this case, the context
> (application command) makes it fairly clear who is to perform the search.

If it were not a command; eg, "do sisku", "lo nixli cu sisku"; I'd not
have been uncertain, the conversion to a command that "ko" does is
something that I would not have thought could be elided.

I think you're right, but if doesn't matter to the present question. "File" does not mean anything either by itself, and neither does "Font". 

For UI we give up grammatical purity in all languages in favor of brevity. No reason why lojban should be different.

{sisku} expands to {zo'e cu sisku zo'e zo'e vau}. Generally speaking, a bridi with an elided x1 is interpreted as an observative, but it doesn't have to be. So yeah {ko} can be elided, & I think it's appropriate in the UI context (& perhaps not many others). mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan

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