From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Nov 13 12:38:32 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:38:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0ixU-0007fu-C7 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:38:32 -0800 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.168]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0ixR-0007fj-JJ for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:38:32 -0800 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so1149986wfa.25 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:38:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=il637zJ45AjII3EVz1TcYeZFr2XObs46t1Yt7dIhr94=; b=Z7Cv7SJkzd+NubZnTwmdymmmK5IIbdKmVfKN/oq1yNFNO+dZCC0VRrROZ0z/hrOcsM aEu87mOlTcQ6IvfQa0AbNmLtPo4bLOnSkr8wy4wtLx1xT+w6wOXkaG1ify0LoY79ULeo MkwUOfjcSBoLsMGGkPXKcUf/n3oFEFPZOdLGE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=EFFkV+GNTXAuAcYu1onvkLlbc+yzerJHveyK8VU+vgSNVd7xZrbAhtkn6M3POgJyRV djWqtOdP9kZ8RZOYYYEbe3+7yejTUqprrMN80MVA5/627gxp1O/hc6ooyxQCFOJRIO5o iHTxmgE/kW+KSkUS4oDviQzKq6j5YlKhJ50hI= Received: by 10.142.177.5 with SMTP id z5mr31801wfe.89.1226608708641; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:38:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.58.3 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:38:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <96f789a60811131238w61a54c0k3d79f01eaec10005@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:38:28 -0500 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: And more le and lo In-Reply-To: <143833.47569.qm@web30401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <702226df0811130806h51c83c15k17acd2c5d2b6c45c@mail.gmail.com> <143833.47569.qm@web30401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1034 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Tom Gysel wrote: > Since 'le' carries the requirement of having a specific thing in mind, and > 'lo' has to refer to something which really fits the description, which > gadri (or any other solution) would we use for ' a dog' in the sentence: ' a > dog attacked me last night'? (bearing in mind that it was dark and so maybe > it was a dog, or a wolf, or any other doglike creature.) If one were to use the CLL definition, then really, it should be "le". Why? Because it is a particular thing you you have in mind, namely, "that thing which attacked me". That being said, I'm surprised to find that no one has yet short-circuited this whole discussion with reference to xorlo ( http://www.lojban.org/tiki//tiki-index.php?page=How+to+use+xorlo&bl ). While not yet officially official, it's been accepted unanimously by the BPFK, and is in common use in the lojban community. In short, the part of xorlo that is relevant here is that there is no longer any veridical (truthiness) component to "lo", so that, under xorlo "lo" would be the right word to use in that sentence. --gejyspa