From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jan 13 11:22:09 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:22:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LMoq1-0002ca-Q0 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:22:09 -0800 Received: from mail-gx0-f19.google.com ([209.85.217.19]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LMopy-0002bV-P7 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:22:09 -0800 Received: by gxk12 with SMTP id 12so250492gxk.10 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:22:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=nEE+A2cvDAkT02QckIclZQv+hr5eFiQJ+i0xP1wFxJc=; b=SkrBBRfQ0hwP2zCOrfjLmL9cBmJTurcFGm8jx9V1+Zz2bpZItjFtdxm8HGmU+rOU9o mMWzNUgxaIM9x1CPMNprwO83yBhVHUVlkWdtgIqh1GT7nvk6D1L//oNnZKrXgqEIXLoi sDSO4JvBIWSJFycMwqWlPobuT5OWNIn0OzONQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=H9SOM7bV7ZKqP8Hg5tuYIKokF1/r7CoYX+1EKNmTMqjeEUnf5eKA0cSaRtS/bfVq10 mmzW4Ag6DAT4keptCP3h5C5S9OVmQ7heZYVQ0hGgfzpmyVSVyIVTgNsQ76Ewq4SfW5AA iFZPEjmzq4gntIj3I09c+ejZgo6D8l2lwtIXI= Received: by 10.150.205.20 with SMTP id c20mr264175ybg.180.1231874520577; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:22:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.199.9 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:22:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5715b9300901131122l49ebb746i921806fae53b90f7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:22:00 -0500 From: "Luke Bergen" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: xelfanva In-Reply-To: <925d17560901131115r781ac8c5r28513af5d4b4b65b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_83503_22803602.1231874520560" References: <20090113001704.GA13721@sdf.lonestar.org> <20090113182735.GA22439@sdf.lonestar.org> <925d17560901131115r781ac8c5r28513af5d4b4b65b@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1181 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_83503_22803602.1231874520560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline no, he's right. Greek eta would be pronounced more like the diphthong "ei". The greek epsilon would be more like the lojban "e" - Luke Bergen On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas wro= te: > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Minimiscience > wrote: > > de'i li 13 pi'e 01 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Brett Williams .fy. cusku zoi > skamyxatra. > > >> > "May you live in interesting times." > >> > - .au do lifri lo cinri cedra > >> > >> ".a'o" might be more appropriate, ".au" is usually i personally want > this to > >> occur, so that feels to me like "i want you to live in interesting > times" > >> maybe even "ca'e" would be good > > > > I think personal desire is more fitting, given that "May you live in > > interesting times" is a curse -- the worst curse in the Agatean Empire = on > > Discworld. > > I too think "a'o" is better, but not for the reason given. As far as I > can tell, both a'o and au are equally personal, as they are used to > express the attitude of the speaker. > > The difference I see between them is that "au" indicates the speaker > wishes something that is not the case were the case, whereas "a'o" > indicates that the speaker hopes that something that (for all they > know) may or may not be the case be the case. That's the main > difference I detect between "wish" and hope". > > I wish you would/were to live in interesting times > > vs. > > I hope you (will) live in interesting times > > > > I'm not sure exactly how the "eu" should be pronounced > > or Lojbanized, > > Not a valid Lojban diphthong, so probably "iu" or "e'u", > > > but I'm positive that eta corresponds to Lojban "ei". > > A diphthong? I would have said both eta and epsilon correspond to > lojban "e", but I don't really know much about Greek. > > > >> I think you need {sei [sa'a] la .iuripides. cu cusku}. > > > > True, a discursive {bridi} would have been a better choice. Would I > still need > > the "{vau}" in order to make it clear that the "{sei}" attaches to the > whole > > {bridi} rather than to "{cevni}"? > > I think so, yes. > > > >> > "This must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays." > >> > - li'a .e'i ca vondei .i mi na'e pu'i kufra loi vondei > >> > >> I think this is an epistemic "must". Maybe "ju'o" or "ru'a". I don't > >> think ".e'i" works here. > > > > "{.e'i}" is there because Arthur is feeling contrained/resigned to it > being > > Thursday. > > The way I read it, he concludes, from the way things are going, that > it must be Thursday. So maybe "ja'o". > > > >> > "Reason #10DF1 to learn Lojban: No one speaks English anymore." > >> > - lo panojauvaipa moi krinu be lonu cilre fi la lojban. zo'u > >> > noda ca'o se bangu la gliban. > >> > - I'm really not sure about my choice of "{ca'o}" to approximate > "anymore." > >> > >> I would use "za'o". > > > > "No one continues to speak English for too long"? > > "No one goes on/keeps on speaking English." > > >> > "With Math, all things are possible." > >> > - fi'o kansa la cmaci ro da cumki > >> > >> "fi'o kansa" or "se pi'o"? > > > > lo'u fi'o kansa le'u .i noda pilno la cmaci .i la cmaci cu pilno roda > > xu fi'o na kansa la cmaci su'o da cumki > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > > ------=_Part_83503_22803602.1231874520560 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline no, he's right.  Greek eta would be pronounced more like the dipht= hong "ei".  The greek epsilon would be more like the lojban = "e"

- Luke Bergen


On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Jorge L= lamb=EDas <jjl= lambias@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com> wr= ote:
> de'i li 13 pi'e 01 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Brett Williams .= fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra.

>> > "May you live in interesting= times."
>> >  - .au do lifri lo cinri cedra
>>
>> ".a'o" might be more appropriate, ".au" is= usually i personally want this to
>> occur, so that feels to me like "i want you to live in intere= sting times"
>> maybe even "ca'e" would be good
>
> I think personal desire is more fitting, given that "May you live= in
> interesting times" is a curse -- the worst curse in the Agatean E= mpire on
> Discworld.

I too think "a'o" is better, but not for the reason giv= en. As far as I
can tell, both a'o and au are equally personal, as they are used to
express the attitude of the speaker.

The difference I see between them is that "au" indicates the spea= ker
wishes something that is not the case were the case, whereas "a'o&= quot;
indicates that the speaker hopes that something that (for all they
know) may or may not be the case be the case. That's the main
difference I detect between "wish" and hope".

  I wish you would/were to live in interesting times

vs.

  I hope you (will) live in interesting times


>  I'm not sure exactly how the "eu" should be pronou= nced
> or Lojbanized,

Not a valid Lojban diphthong, so probably "iu" or "e&#= 39;u",

> but I'm positive that eta corresponds to Lojban "ei".
A diphthong? I would have said both eta and epsilon correspond to
lojban "e", but I don't really know much about Greek.


>>  I think you need {sei [sa'a] la .iuripides. cu cusku}. >
> True, a discursive {bridi} would have been a better choice.  Woul= d I still need
> the "{vau}" in order to make it clear that the "{sei}&q= uot; attaches to the whole
> {bridi} rather than to "{cevni}"?

I think so, yes.


>> > "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang= of Thursdays."
>> >  - li'a .e'i ca vondei .i mi na'e pu'i k= ufra loi vondei
>>
>> I think this is an epistemic "must". Maybe "ju'= o" or "ru'a". I don't
>> think ".e'i" works here.
>
> "{.e'i}" is there because Arthur is feeling contrained/r= esigned to it being
> Thursday.

The way I read it, he concludes, from the way things are going, that<= br> it must be Thursday. So maybe "ja'o".


>> > "Reason #10DF1 to learn Lojban: No one speaks English an= ymore."
>> >  - lo panojauvaipa moi krinu be lonu cilre fi la lojban.= zo'u
>> >   noda ca'o se bangu la gliban.
>> >  - I'm really not sure about my choice of "{ca&= #39;o}" to approximate "anymore."
>>
>> I would use "za'o".
>
> "No one continues to speak English for too long"?

"No one goes on/keeps on speaking English."

>> > "With Math, all things are possible."
>> >  - fi'o kansa la cmaci ro da cumki
>>
>> "fi'o kansa" or "se pi'o"?
>
> lo'u fi'o kansa le'u .i noda pilno la cmaci .i la cmaci cu= pilno roda

xu fi'o na kansa la cmaci su'o da cumki

mu'o mi'e xorxes




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