From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Feb 27 01:37:31 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:37:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Lcz9u-0004ip-S5 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:37:31 -0800 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.243]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Lcz9o-0004iT-8S for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:37:30 -0800 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c2so793628anc.1 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:37:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=PDlpyQOXktuG2JOI5ZGHHn4LoEMS2n5ZAwDS20oR99c=; b=S3w0qVq3FuvTN8iUwn6Bot6nWJ1nQpINgUphOPBd6/rx1qHi5Fmin00ZbtNEyCfPfF i9NBDY+WWY+FZ4OkxjC4oQb6emeh1uxVbUkNDO1jfmVajzEb4EbNnNv2tCzsK0+HBEPr G6WW4kDntCYbIBhVpgvi6R79dWyOQs7UcGZso= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jmlYgIpaqCOH7mzbcqNAooI0F6QzkHvHng87B3V9gv6G92UQejlHW95li2/Dod5Y0g Juh44zFQbp56IGuCVHhpmEObElJ9qO00+CYAXRtXq2VrRVkgVuPKYm/r8LuCbEWDffuk DIvTujgXCLHRxfDhJo3EEtYlrYK+OmfJfilrM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.166.10 with SMTP id o10mr1185873ane.96.1235727440661; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:37:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <70697fa40902240947p65ebf26ai4bc0299cf1a18dcd@mail.gmail.com> References: <70697fa40902240947p65ebf26ai4bc0299cf1a18dcd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:37:20 -0500 Message-ID: <425e4ac20902270137x3fe6d935qf40d276e0828e523@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: pro-selbri ? From: Stela Selckiku To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1361 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: selckiku@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 12:47 PM, J Y wrote: > { go'i } repeats the last bridi. Does it only refer to the whole bridi > ? Or can it refer to the selbri ? Or to the selbri tanru ? It repeats the selbri of the last bridi. But not just the selbri, yes, it takes its context in the bridi as well, for instance: > go'i fu na'e le karce ( le xe go'i na karce )  ;  go'i ji'a fa mi  ....... > > Is it ok? -- that's right. If the last thing said was "klama le zarci fu le karce", then the 2nd and 5th places are more constrained than they are with just the selbri "klama". A "go'i" that attaches to that bridi has as its natural x2 that particular market. And then you can change that if you want. So: A: mi klama le zarci B: mi go'i B is saying that they go to the same market as A, not just that they go somewhere. BTW this is a specific limited version of a more general mechanism that you can employ with "cei" and "broda". If you use "cei" to define one of the stand-in selbri like "broda" (or brode, brodi, etc), it becomes a reusable tool with similar properties. So for instance if I say: mi klama cei broda fu le karce Then the selbri "broda" now has as its natural x5 that car, and its natural x1 as me. Then at any point in the future, so long as that definition is in effect, I can say something ilke: broda le zarci And it means that I went to the market in the car. Or I can say: do broda le zarci And it means that you went to the market in the car. This is a powerful and very lojbanic mechanism and I recommend it. Probridi like "broda" are discussed in the CLL in Chapter 7, Section 5: http://jbotcan.org/cllc/c7/s5.html mu'o doi cilre be fi zo go'i za'a .e zo cei .a'o mi'e selkik (over, O learner about "go'i", i see, and hopefully "cei", i'm selkik)