From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Mar 05 03:44:04 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 05 Mar 2009 03:44:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LfBzg-0002gP-Be for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 03:44:04 -0800 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.150]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LfBzc-0002fI-9b for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 03:44:04 -0800 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 14so2814458qwa.58 for ; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 03:43:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=NyvTwrX53hv0w08NxqYwTgVhBmukmyIy5kKYfr//jko=; b=vRWRaDL+MWjLagyHHR97+L10TL6dPz9fp/NXd44YFsXkgcTZufi8uPhCMDgXy8yu+n JA2TPW0rac/TDchjVXXrIZ1nkllIq1phjP3uVos4EBGYiCRvi1MHIygNXEysX4f8M6Qw jOdY+NxkPZpLEvgSsxTg7Rs5PgcwL3pHVXLgA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=umljEa3jwrWW4WCaRT4tM3/z3DaLFHKzQfbi/ZIxMDKNFbBE6YdYqR8am6na+4vf82 j6agthjqyHUvO4G4Qx4mxgTaQiidqFBMPb92knK2g/4MICW9Ei+EbFKL1Fmr4snny6gP OdiCYG9/gOokPni8NzZXgsjufVs8L6UPomx2k= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.97.194 with SMTP id m2mr672374qcn.21.1236253439138; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 03:43:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <425e4ac20903042034m25a2ef4h80864c40093dde7e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090302231357.GF25033@sunflowerriver.org> <425e4ac20903032110xe9e5e8cy2853275e40383813@mail.gmail.com> <5a3750120903032327v653fd950u7ae2bbfa787d11d7@mail.gmail.com> <425e4ac20903040114q5f7c87cfibc2207199b083ee3@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560903040510l12e4d202lc92ebdcea74636da@mail.gmail.com> <425e4ac20903042034m25a2ef4h80864c40093dde7e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:43:59 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17560903050343m3a7f66dfm5d5ea685ca654f90@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: grammar check for my first few sentences From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1391 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 1:34 AM, Stela Selckiku wrote: > > You're saying that "abstractor, bridi, tense, brivla" such as "nu > broda ca brode", forms a tanru? "abstractor, selbri, tense, brivla", yes. (The tense plus the selbri constitute the bridi that goes inside the abstractor.) It is tempting to think of the tense as going with the final brivla, but in fact the abstractor is not closed yet, so the inner bridi has first dibs on "tense [ku]" as a term. Notice that a "na" instead of a tense would not have this problem because the "ku" of "na ku" is not elidable, so "na" without "ku" could not be a term of the abstracted bridi. It was probably a bad idea to make the "ku" of "tag ku" elidable in the first place. I would be in favor of making it non-elidable, in which case the sentence would parse as you expected. > Is this right then:  ta nu klama ba prenu  --  that's some > event-of-going-later type of people over there. > > dei nu pilno le tarmi ca jufra  --  this is an event of using the > shape now sentence > > mi cusku lo pu'u cilre fi la .lojban. pu selsku  --  i speak a process > of having learned about lojban type of expression > > Now I get it!? Yes. I wouldn't elide the "ku" in those cases, just to avoid confusion, but that's how the grammar is currently defined. mu'o mi'e xorxes