From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Mar 16 19:05:36 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LjOgS-0001cV-I7 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:05:36 -0700 Received: from mx.freeshell.org ([192.94.73.19] helo=sdf.lonestar.org ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LjOgP-0001bv-Kf for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:05:36 -0700 Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (IDENT:jwodder@iceland.freeshell.org [192.94.73.5]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.3/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2H25VEE015439 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:05:31 GMT Received: (from jwodder@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.3/8.12.8/Submit) id n2H25Uxq012234 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:05:30 GMT Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:05:30 +0000 From: Minimiscience To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Preliminary chapter 1 for Lojban learners Message-ID: <20090317020529.GA20254@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <2E127075-2E4F-4DBF-A77D-49F82B615B1F@zoominternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2E127075-2E4F-4DBF-A77D-49F82B615B1F@zoominternet.net> Organization: SDF Public Access UNIX System User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sdf.lonestar.org [192.94.73.19]); Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:05:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1430 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: minimiscience@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners de'i li 16 pi'e 03 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Robert Baruch .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. > I've put together a quickie document for beginning Lojban learners. The > idea is not to use any language other than Lojban. Please look at it here: > http://www.scribd.com/doc/13331655/lojban1 > > Could people with far more experience in Lojban than I take a look at it? > My objectives are that (1) it should be correct, (2) it should not > require verbose explanations even if you know nothing about Lojban > (visual or symbolic explanations are ok), (3) it should not require a > dictionary, and (4) it should use simple constructions which build up to > more complex constructions. .skamyxatra That was fast. You really should have taken a bit more time to learn & become familiar with the language first. Most of the flaws in the text are little more than bad style, but there are a couple actual errors. Unfortunately, the more I look at this, the less inclined I feel to critique it thoroughly, so for now I will just give you a list of brief complaints without elaboration. - Don't use "{zo'e}." Skip over unspecified places with FA tags (CLL 9.3). - No one terminates {sumti} before {selbri} with "{ku}." Use "{cu}." - "{mo'o}" indicates the order of the surrounding text, not of the actual construct that it is attached to. You should be using "{moi}" instead, which creates a {selbri}. - "{joi}" is NOT an all-purpose connective. Among other things, it cannot be used to connect a {selbri} to a {sumti} as is done at the end of "{le remo'o cipra}." Also, connecting two {sumti} with "{joi}" means that they are to be considered together, and any properties that one {sumti} has also belongs to the mass created by "{joi}." While your uses of "{joi}" as a {sumti} connective appear to be technically correct, it would be far more appropriate to use "{.e}" instead, which means that the {bridi} is true for each individual {sumti} that it connects; similarly, "{gi'e}" (or possibly "{je}") would be a better alternative for {selbri}/{bridi} tail connection. See chapter 14 of the CLL on connectives for more information. - You appear to be placing a period at the end of each sentence. While this technically has no effect, it is utterly unnecessary in Lojban, and it is somewhat misleading to natural language speakers as to the manner of sentence separation. - "{ma}" is the {sumti} interrogative; for the {selbri} interrogative, use "{mo}." That's all I can see right now, though I didn't look very hard. mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. -- ko jundi mi na.e lo selsku be mi