From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Apr 17 10:25:07 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LuroJ-0005rY-Kg for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:25:07 -0700 Received: from mail-qy0-f131.google.com ([209.85.221.131]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LuroD-0005pm-JB for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:25:06 -0700 Received: by qyk37 with SMTP id 37so3283364qyk.28 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:24:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=wo3yOqkoijiUYM+LQ6wBkPXOxuWn41FGyv9to/dIO24=; b=iuGvYBUGsC7ycKM5IsLBkwDAi/IY2q46uqkuiyuMIYplEO2gEi8cJi7sp/yLjOs0jf Uat1XFAUVq0pxk5YHxovt7Pc6PW+aWhj1MnMnelKpQ2IyPSfMoA/3EI8DH2w2LBf+DYO +O+j0cf39OwufmU00bHqS99PqRa4jVlNIlOmw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=BALP2na7q1RehGY0Fu+uWT6oAqVUSDgkU7L1yQ69Nl74vvDE9+2JTYabTWmOBRWsB1 YUixMbgnqhYPvLQ8t0perm7gK8KZEyRs4+sGlu2zmXrrhm4kzXFByslwZxn1P78IJ7i0 Mu2x6uiGxK3l9XA30f/v/vh64t+VUNoO+R9fA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.2.74 with SMTP id 10mr4050359qai.260.1239989095137; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:24:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4de8c3930904170755t415ec77byc42e8417e7764b3f@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9300904170833q1210b85ep14244505484b8444@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:24:55 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300904171024j722f144ft5f3860b65c5fe9e9@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: du & mintu From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cd6148a85140467c37559 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: mmm, in math terms I think it would be kind of like: x = 2 y = 2 z = x you would say that x and y are actually the same thing, like z is a label FOR x. where as you would same that x and y have the same value, so x mintu y but x du z. To put it another way, "this stick du the stick that poked my eye out" means that it is the same actual stick. "this stick" and "the stick that..." are two labels that refer to the same object. But "this stick mintu that stick" is to say that there are two different actual objects but that their attributes are identical. [...] Content analysis details: (-2.6 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- --X-archive-position: 1543 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0015175cd6148a85140467c37559 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mmm, in math terms I think it would be kind of like: x = 2 y = 2 z = x you would say that x and y are actually the same thing, like z is a label FOR x. where as you would same that x and y have the same value, so x mintu y but x du z. To put it another way, "this stick du the stick that poked my eye out" means that it is the same actual stick. "this stick" and "the stick that..." are two labels that refer to the same object. But "this stick mintu that stick" is to say that there are two different actual objects but that their attributes are identical. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still fairly new to lojban myself. - Luke Bergen On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Robert Rhine wrote: > So do you mean that du is "The same as" while mintu means "not different > then"? That is, mathematically speaking, 1 plus or minus 1 is not different > then 2 plus or minus 0.1, but not the same, while 1 is the same as 10^0. So, > using the previous statements, are "one plus or minus one" mintu "two plus > or minus 0.1" and 1 du 10^0 proper uses of the words? > > Thanks, > Robbie > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> from what I understand "du" is more like the mathematical "=". It's >> saying that x1 IS x2 while mintu only means that the two objects are the >> same. If you're a programmer it would be like the difference between: >> x = "hello" >> y = "hello" >> z = x; >> >> x du z >> but x mintu y >> >> - Luke Bergen >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 10:55 AM, tijlan wrote: >> >>> How is "mintu" different from "du"? >>> >>> mu'o se ckire mi'e tijlan >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > --0015175cd6148a85140467c37559 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mmm, in math terms I think it would be kind of like:
x =3D 2
y =3D 2<= br>z =3D x

you would say that x and y are actually the same thing, l= ike z is a label FOR x.=A0 where as you would same that x and y have the sa= me value, so x mintu y but x du z.=A0 To put it another way, "this sti= ck du the stick that poked my eye out" means that it is the same actua= l stick.=A0 "this stick" and "the stick that..." are tw= o labels that refer to the same object.=A0 But "this stick mintu that = stick" is to say that there are two different actual objects but that = their attributes are identical.=A0

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still fairly new to lojban myself.=

- Luke Bergen


On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Robert= Rhine <rrhine@gma= il.com> wrote:
So do you mean that du is "The same as" while mintu means &q= uot;not different then"? That is, mathematically speaking, 1 plus or m= inus 1 is not different then 2 plus or minus 0.1, but not the same, while 1= is the same as 10^0.=A0So, using the previous statements, are=A0"one = plus or minus one" mintu "two plus or minus 0.1" and 1 du 10= ^0 proper uses of the words?
=A0
Thanks,
Robbie

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
from what I under= stand "du" is more like the mathematical "=3D".=A0 It&#= 39;s saying that x1 IS x2 while mintu only means that the two objects are t= he same.=A0 If you're a programmer it would be like the difference betw= een:
x =3D "hello"
y =3D "hello"
z =3D x;

x du = z
but x mintu y

- Luke Berg= en=20



On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 10:55 AM, tijlan <pascal.akihiko@gmail.com> wrote:
How is "mint= u" different from "du"?

mu'o se ckire mi'e ti= jlan






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