From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun May 31 19:10:01 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 31 May 2009 19:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MAwyP-0003JI-7c for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 19:10:01 -0700 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.146]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MAwyJ-0003J0-1b for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 19:10:01 -0700 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so4306154qwc.58 for ; Sun, 31 May 2009 19:09:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zO0azt5T/ntvTJ69Bn/1wLoB/LXDLpsm30fYHR5M5ug=; b=alAYpmlUdktwnj5Frin4x7Os1Eb8kCs/NQcDVD0YlKUKioyo9+Xfi3b++Lgtqa5TIS +tnlOFtTmQyXbTG2nKRpZI3uKsdX73lnj7//BsjDi4AvUpM1OlBB92+VCx3DlBtmF/h/ 6JkMI9Xirg00nip5NNzOpiQZTaTa2lyWvQj2g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=gTzvglil+SXj9fDQcnvZmDEA54TH48wa8acz9UHNQjK1QK34HFpWSAPcbCrSnLJOmE rx3qJTqSpSFVO8KP18SuZ4pxWvt0XhnACL7AQV40H1ir0eKABuCBLFMBJMgX7YMXe9Wf r6K7EDfVOkpnuq5OznPH3K37YbzV6HvVnth9Y= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.82.83 with SMTP id a19mr1575628qcl.42.1243822193606; Sun, 31 May 2009 19:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:09:52 -0300 Message-ID: <73982fe70905311909ke27958eo20e9a882a88ad4c3@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Pronunciation: a major problem in spreading lojban From: Leonardo Castro To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 1728 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: leolucas1980@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Hi, folks! I wonder why the patterns of basic lojban words were not chosen to be "CVVCV" and "CVCVV" instead of "CCVCV" and "CVCCV" (I would also add "CVNCV" and "CVVV" to the list). Anglophones are relatively well accustomed to consonant clusters, but most people in the world will have problems when pronouncing words like "cmavo" and "zdani". Using the "schwa" to prevent consonantal encounters is also unnatural for most people: Brazilians and Nahuatles, for instance, would use /i/ for this purpose and Japaneses use /u/. Besides, a Brazilian would but a /i/ _before_ some words like "zdani" (/izdani/), not between the consonants. In my opinion, an auxlang should be no more complicated than Toki Pona: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toki_Pona But Toki Pona is not a "loglan" and don't have a word breaking detection system. I wish someone created a simplified version of lojban with a (C)V(N) structure for its syllables. Cordially, Leo