From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jun 01 03:11:24 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MB4UE-0002l6-Tv for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:11:23 -0700 Received: from mail-bw0-f175.google.com ([209.85.218.175]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MB4Tl-0002iz-4c for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:11:13 -0700 Received: by bwz23 with SMTP id 23so6537833bwz.34 for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:10:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1aPeGCCdvrOKXM5+Gi3wc5fWYZHIm1ktvDF3Sk/Ufzs=; b=v+eh4s0Xd9N2VwniQleqgqhCYWP8yjUKW4a/Vsmi0IE0mf1UujFC69Xg3+oQPwA7DF PkCylsdqFYMYU6xWVkxB0MVqjzgd7hZD6yxuYAqwv75YcFDzkBf2pPleM2xuJYBZ9ooT afK2cfp9W2EwOkK0dfKfrhA5Az1yJpMLXWfvQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=YmwHwKy3mVbrpVEntqwV+iHPTdjSXFYE73ZaIesieFLopdYQNy7u47nxmjBG/WHlea xVb7JgEueJklWqURupSIoy7sTM7HRtUM0mYaexmw6mhTJ6EoqKS/J4R5UWEM5eMBRT7e 4hnhVh9v8bqs+X38T/3bt2r+XRu6IY/7edYXI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.220.18 with SMTP id x18mr3178729muq.6.1243851046277; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:10:46 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: e80136bb3477467c Message-ID: <4de8c3930906010310w6665f193saf7c5a68c521e079@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] do NU broda From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 1731 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jbotijlan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners I know "do ka melbi" may sound odd and is actually considered invalid in Lojbanistan. But how about "do za'i melbi" and "do zu'o melbi", by way of marking off the Thai "koon suay" (in which "suay" is an adjective) from the verb-based Guarani (a language spoken in Southern America) "nde pora~" (in which "pora~" is a verb or a non-adjective predicate) or vice versa? I personally don't have a problem with depicting a person as a phenomenon that can be seen as a state or an activity itself. If you are beautiful, *you* are the state of a body being beautiful. If you smile, *you* are the activity of a body smiling. "do goi lo nu da melbi je cisma goi do". And if I speak to *you*, I may as well be speaking to a state or an activity (or other forms of phenomenological entities) from which I may have a conscious response on the part of the/'your' brain situated in that state or activity. I, the 'observer/seer', myself is a state/activity in which a certain surrounding quality of yours is/becomes a form of beauty. Such concepts as "you" or "I" is abstractive in itself. It is abstracted as the center of consciousness, of emotion, of body, of behaviour etc. from a given sequence of either physical or mental events. If I get involved in a car accident and my brain gets severely damaged, at least the mental 'center' of 'my' existence would very much be likely to alter, unable to perceive and respond in the same way I previously used to do. People around me, then, wouldn't be able to see the same 'me' when they speak to 'me', because there would lack the very phenomenological/behavioural qualities from which the old 'me' could be abstracted. 'I' of the post-accident is a state/activity of consciousness/emotion/body/behaviour/etc. which is different from what could be abstracted previously i.e. 'I' of the pre-accident. For this reason, I don't see much of a difference between "do" and "tu'a do" in the aforementioned case. Both can be the x1 of "za'i melbi" or "zu'o melbi", pe'i. mu'o se ckire tavla mi'e tijlan