From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jun 02 11:01:13 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MBYIR-0005sE-5o for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:01:11 -0700 Received: from mail-ew0-f213.google.com ([209.85.219.213]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MBYIJ-0005q3-9y for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:01:09 -0700 Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so8164726ewy.34 for ; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:00:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tSfBzE3O4O0MR/r5M4tNyI75WumBwfrRGcpowst2pmc=; b=rwfx7ZlXzEKRfxGX4itn1FjEZ4yGqShaviys4iSVfyjuyjkcaD4OKnMbR109kM/kR9 tqRh3gm31quJZk9AIDRVDjbPXpZzqc8RNt3dSq3ACaGdIu6lBSe8I4IyOJfjeJe/GEbt 5wxkKcp2lw/tlHVFFXPAsnN6766Rn6nnLSnJY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=xADYpwaED3QaEwyKtoU7QMHbyUWelUQ8jPD4I5oO55LxB4UlqJ9mA1kO2S1NbqpPJP I/avKvYKQ+cKwet2hLaign5e0HAEB/KDMXEkobsOqOeSpgU66TIXIOVMjsp8WzoSEE5r g9h51J3RCpgH81ZFCiqwLoPDU45tbI+SQksmE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.8.79 with SMTP id 57mr2290172weq.202.1243965656888; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:00:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <73982fe70906021030k1edfdbdbtd9cd3441bf82e3b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <73982fe70905311909ke27958eo20e9a882a88ad4c3@mail.gmail.com> <8900cc410906010103p1d2721e4rcdf94369983d19e3@mail.gmail.com> <73982fe70906020712h236e8c5rf43c18ca4474b19e@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930906020942p4d14e58at3ebe43fb0ed55593@mail.gmail.com> <73982fe70906021030k1edfdbdbtd9cd3441bf82e3b4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 20:00:56 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Pronunciation: a major problem in spreading lojban From: Ivo Doko To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 1745 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ivo.doko@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners 2009/6/2 Leonardo Castro : > Is the Croatian [r] voiced or unvoiced. > I can't realize the difference between a "voiced r" and a "r" > spoken at the same time as a schwa. I don't know whether [r] is voiced or unvoiced, but I probably rushed it a bit when I said "at the same time". The schwa comes before the [r] in the consonant clusters. It's easy to notice the presence of schwa before [r] if you compare the pronunciation of various Croatian words. Here's a very neat example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Republika_Hrvatska.ogg Note the pronunciation of the first [r] in "Republika" and of the consonant cluster "hrv" in "Hrvatska" - it's very easy to hear a schwa in-between [h] and [r] there.