From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jun 03 04:16:34 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MBoSQ-0000ad-N8 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:16:34 -0700 Received: from mail-ew0-f213.google.com ([209.85.219.213]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MBoSN-0000aA-CL for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:16:34 -0700 Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so8745771ewy.34 for ; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:16:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=sdqhQY+oP5ae7zvmYB+LKUoAgwzSwd0awKeXGZWch7k=; b=X5bl27Aqfk0IaTj2282Nv9w4Htott2gduFNg+/NPzEzfC19QyrFJxlHkun0zq2ikF+ V1oh8e/Evrd/or42rzUaQsnGS817igDM6E0OVrzpuJtmU1xB8psNPrKLuzc9gdIJbGv0 kQt75DXg6AzaL5F6/zL/AskVnvrTPV5Oq+1ps= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IwSbWUgfg82NjPSnyu3SsGaF4oGuUcG1EpK383ERzq9bqbDMiqTTBGq+aiHDn2rdon DhGjpZkZKwnUZVNVYju/t09xkZAIpvIldhneEgxLurOUfBdnB/PH/l7BCAzSDJ7H2P5Y ZC3vjcyWQXdtmtY33RymGXICD/xiKeXuQgHwU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.54.194 with SMTP id i44mr284176wec.93.1244027783356; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:16:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:16:23 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Pronunciation: a major problem in spreading lojban From: Ivo Doko To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 1750 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ivo.doko@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners 2009/6/3 : > I think you are mishearing the vocalic quality of non-consonantal [r].  I > have no trouble pronouncing or hearing vocalic [r], and there's no schwa in > the sound. > > stevo There is also one more thing besides hearing it that supports my opinion about schwa coming before [r] in consonant clusters: Bulgarian orthography, unlike Croatian and Serbian for example, "takes care" of schwas too (as in, they've got a symbol for it, and that symbol is ъ). To stay with the already mentioned example, the name for Croatia is the same in Croatian, Serbian and Bulgarian and it's pronounced the same in all three languages, but in Serbian it's written as "Хрватска" (completely analogous to Croatian "Hrvatska"), while in Bulgarian it's written as "Хърватска". So unless I and all the Bulgarians are suffering from a collective delusion... :D