From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jun 23 10:36:39 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MJ9vC-0003XF-U7 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:36:39 -0700 Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.46.156]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MJ9v9-0003Wz-10 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:36:38 -0700 Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so593749ywm.46 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:36:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=a0NQU+LodcYL5Ne0M1jcsrN44T7RAUVktN9NLPUJ2ro=; b=hZtH/RJZ/qNUHskOn3OJE3tAqbypsjbxx+8DlHdmGvGKWlSWv8Mr3kWhsAk2kuBaUD 1nnVUGLc30aIZWJakrEM5rkbanRls5OSfNVFDv93yjL7FOYlqYubEyJep0PDlrDuuA4N 2KPA/GFtlw1SoSoiIvzShLm6mcIXv0RD5X2u0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=T1U0O+YV1ZEtCV1RMQdxRF7DVR04rf8jTHWYbFuI6Wq4sSL6kZE6/jAshqzK5gPDB5 U/n/Nh4yRBV8tFIp05HZ2mS7wC3sMiIWmiY1qB24DMHe91Qz091lKcjYmu5Zcq29Sgzm jrQ0eVXLfIdk2Bcv24D2uBYRGoHynATe6juiM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.101.8 with SMTP id d8mr630800ybm.256.1245778593578; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:36:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5715b9300906231014l3dbadb73v4a291df1fe3fe0fa@mail.gmail.com> References: <5715b9300906230813u2c4149dbkf718e143387ae799@mail.gmail.com> <200906231303.51825.phma@phma.optus.nu> <5715b9300906231014l3dbadb73v4a291df1fe3fe0fa@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:36:33 -0400 Message-ID: <96f789a60906231036m593c7461y76e1ad140af242da@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lu preti li'u From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 1880 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > > So {lu ... li'u} works like go'i in terms of how much it delimits. I had just read in CLL that with {go'i} {mi} refers to an idea and is not quoted verbatim. i.e. > A: mi barda > B: .i go'i > > B is saying "yes, you are big", the word {mi} is not brought along but the concept itself is. So lu .. li'u works the same? Not exactly the same, but it must be understood in the context of the quote, not the surrounding quoted material. Similarly, if character says "ri...", you count backwards from what was previously SAID by a character, not whatever the surrounding text might be. > > Also, (somewhat related) in la alis. cizra je cinri zukte vi le selmacygu'e I found this: > {lu ji'a ma prali sei la alis pensi fi lo cukta poi vasru no pixra ja nuncasnu li'u} > How does one know when the "sei" stops and the main bridi continues? Why does the {fi} attach to the main bridi and not to pensi (other than the fact that pensi has no x3)? Chapter 19, section 12 of the grammar: > > The grammar of the bridi following ``sei'' has an unusual limitation: the sumti must either all precede the selbri, or must be glued into the selbri with ``be'' and ``bei'': > > 12.5) la frank. prami sei gleki be fa la suzn. la djein. > > Frank loves (Susan is happy) Jane. > > This restriction allows the terminator cmavo ``se'u'' to almost always be elided. --gejyspa > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >> >> On Tuesday 23 June 2009 11:13:05 Luke Bergen wrote: >> > So, I have a couple of questions about lu ... li'u that I haven't found in >> > the CLL yet. >> > >> > A: lo gerku goi ko'a cu barda >> > B: .i la saimon cusku lu ko'a cu xunre li'u >> > >> > Now, does the {ko'a} in the quote that B is referring to refer to "lo >> > gerku" or potentially something else entirely? Or does the presence of a >> > {ko'a} without a {goi} assignment within that quote make the entire quote >> > ungrammatical. >> >> "ko'a" in the second sentence refers to something in Simon's utterance, three >> words of which are quoted here. Unless you're playing Simon Says, in which >> case the second sentence is ignored because it contains "ko'a" instead >> of "ko". The presence of "ko'a" without "goi" is not ungrammatical; it is >> merely semantically unclear. The song "le cmalu bloti" uses it; it is up to >> the listener to figure out that ko'a is the crew as a whole, or the crew >> minus the boy, and ko'e is the boy. >> >> If B had said "la saimon. cusku le sedu'u ko'a xunre", though, "ko'a" would >> refer to lo gerku. >> >> > Furthermore, if we have: >> > >> > A: la saimon cusku lu mi barda li'u >> > >> > is "mi" saimon or the speaker "A"? >> >> "mi" refers to "la saimon". >> >> Pierre >> >> >> >