From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jul 29 05:01:10 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MW7qH-0005Iv-Eq for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:01:09 -0700 Received: from mail-gx0-f220.google.com ([209.85.217.220]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MW7qC-0005Fa-5o for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:01:08 -0700 Received: by gxk20 with SMTP id 20so2903206gxk.10 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:00:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uEi0tHm9OIsZpxnWjbx5Qet3EmemXPty9/N0aAMyolI=; b=BxdzGVSprd578wAppRVudhR0x89aSdqq5eXdDzc6Unvg4wQlNpIvTWv6MsnZJS5bMf I9AlthIOJuvNyKVueblUiTM8vOMARgeMgK/UGCbrQ+8t/2MRFbBtAAgt1WZYV51ZsPAJ ToSWQAuNzRDXC5xv0cLJRCL2KokEd+fxOLtQ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=RWFj+WYQsW1obn1Z31WE+0eg9de+ZhMIIfq3NCZIjIs7BUeovKT3bpcrrHiR4aEyL3 1WcUlA5JS4MsqKVsphE1ATGv3c03j1AowVE5xJC5NWTfN/jycmITWUdTYLlU22X13siP 9+eWsZcrWvjGG5htJG5MykkftJh7/VFSzl2Bk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.218.10 with SMTP id q10mr1397049ybg.143.1248868857799; Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:00:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5715b9300907280807j626a08e4i13b287ddc92dd36c@mail.gmail.com> References: <425e4ac20907280132t5a1d9acbsc10fb970de3033d9@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9300907280631k26f3701eyb0505e488893f8b5@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60907280745p7229e813lbf2031fc2c19ecbb@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9300907280807j626a08e4i13b287ddc92dd36c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:00:57 -0400 Message-ID: <96f789a60907290500i647e4eb5id792adb94ab042a7@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "tavla lo na'e te djuno", talking to the unknown, an accidental poem (with translation) From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 1963 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners From a logician's (and for that matter, a lojbanist's) standpoint, yes, "you are X and X" would be a legitimate way to answer the the question "you are X and __?", which means you have chosen not to reveal any characteristic other than X. selckiku could have use any number of means to attempt to solicit an answer other than X. cmavo like ji'a bi'u, zu'unai , or brivla like drata for example. --gejyspa On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > hmmm, that's true.  I suppose the implication of "other than" is that "I > acknowledge that you are loved, but what other besides that are you?".  Is > it legitimate to say that "you are X and X" which would arguably be > different from "you are X and something other than X"? > > Clearly at this point I'm nitpicking and I understand that the line and > stela's translation is a good one.  Now I'm just curious about the semantic > difference between "other than" and "and". > > - Luke Bergen > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: >> >>   It is... but what does "you are what and loved?" mean other than "what >> are you other than loved?" >>         --gejyspa >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Luke Bergen >> wrote: >>> >>> .ui .u'a.  I'm a little confused about the last line though.  Why do you >>> translate {gi'e} as "other than"?  I thought that {gi'e} was an afterthought >>> "and"? >>> >>> - Luke Bergen >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Stela Selckiku >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> mi'e la stela selckiku >>>> I'm the Lock Key-Opened. >>>> >>>> doi na'e te djuno do mo .i do mo >>>> To the Unknown, who are you?  Who are you? >>>> >>>> .i do mo ca le nu cerni cikna >>>> Who are you when you morning wake? >>>> >>>> .i do mo ca le nu nicte sipna >>>> Who are you when you nighttime sleep? >>>> >>>> .i do mo doi na'e te djuno do'u >>>> What do you do, O Unknown, >>>> >>>> gi'e se prami >>>> Other than be loved? >>>> >>>> mu'o >>>> Over. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > >