From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Aug 15 22:56:11 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1McYix-00068H-I4 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:56:11 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f179.google.com ([209.85.212.179]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1McYiq-00067b-Mj for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:56:11 -0700 Received: by vws9 with SMTP id 9so1938970vws.25 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:55:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=KRhLcrMNkVXvccYQCUzIYw2Q+MSfP+92aKcQqftFCns=; b=f6YF5Lcp5meYL4CrWTNb723EDtwiNqoZ0DOpfF6jauEHly9VzVq1dmzt95HIYO8XT6 SJdTBCXFV33g0NPwIqsRYo4OTWgkKmDpk67G2cN8jQCSX9UYasLppTwijjNq0doFp1FE wX9/4qsWkNwB+P9Ez/Gdbswut6+eSsOhCCYP4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=qZIf5W598q7YDbrdf7IS2Gq5HdZ1NrTwNKM0aYylf7PKcsrwMk3/njzwTHol4mLy7W k5Ck3xoFLpmxHs1VlO0P09xQzOHg+1M7R/lLkUor20Fgv6jlG2KtS+J/EaEMBTLKvz34 fQyGeqs067Nu+JFoRwXUhzVivn/bINKLmgMOM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.111.146 with SMTP id s18mr3569660vcp.87.1250402158774; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:55:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200908160144.09917.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <4A868DBB.7050008@cosmicray.co.uk> <200908160023.40524.phma@phma.optus.nu> <5715b9300908152202jc8eff2fjd146e8956c626a39@mail.gmail.com> <200908160144.09917.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:55:58 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300908152255q3decf033y7d71e6df614e1d38@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: coi ro do From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64c0b72800abc04713bf08e X-archive-position: 2029 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0016e64c0b72800abc04713bf08e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HAH, I didn't notice that this was on the beginners list. a'o ma'a na tepri'a su'o da - Luke Bergen On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Sunday 16 August 2009 01:02:30 Luke Bergen wrote: > > what's this about a revision of phonotactics and morphology? Have these > > changed since the CLL? > > There's a proposal to switch from the LALR grammar to a PEG, and there are > some points of morphology on which the CLL is inconsistent, confusing, or > underspecified. Nothing is going to change with gismu or lujvo morphology > (except possibly allowing "y" where it's not needed). Only some corner > cases > of fu'ivla and cmevla may be affected. Examples: > * One word in the Book (i,iai,i,iai,ion) has a triphthong. There is no list > of > allowed triphthongs. If a triphthong is allowed to be the nucleus of a > syllable in a lujvo, then "mliau" (meow) is one syllable, therefore > invalid, > and "amliau" is valid. If there are no triphthongs, then "mliau" is valid, > and "amliau" breaks up. Either way, "mliaue" is valid. > * The fu'irvlazba algorithm, applied to "jamo" with the three-letter rafsi, > yields "lerndjamo", which is invalid. It has to be "lerldjamo". > * The Book says that a cmevla can't contain "la", "lai", or "doi", unless > preceded by a consonant. This doesn't make sense: "lai" contains "la", > and "la'i" isn't mentioned. My amendment is that a cmevla can't > contain "la", "lai", "la'i", or "doi" unless preceded by a consonant or > followed by a vowel or apostrophe. This means "laus" and "ala'um" are both > valid. The dot side throws out the rule entirely, and puts pauses before > all > cmevla. > > Enough of this! It's too much for the beginners' list. > > Pierre > > > > --0016e64c0b72800abc04713bf08e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HAH, I didn't notice that this was on the beginners list.

a'= o ma'a na tepri'a su'o da

- Luke Bergen

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Pierre = Abbat <phma@phma= .optus.nu> wrote:
On Sunday 16 August 2009 01:02:30 Luke Bergen wrote:
> what's this about a revision of phonotactics and morphology? =A0Ha= ve these
> changed since the CLL?

There's a proposal to switch from the LALR grammar to a PEG, and = there are
some points of morphology on which the CLL is inconsistent, confusing, or underspecified. Nothing is going to change with gismu or lujvo morphology (except possibly allowing "y" where it's not needed). Only so= me corner cases
of fu'ivla and cmevla may be affected. Examples:
* One word in the Book (i,iai,i,iai,ion) has a triphthong. There is no list= of
allowed triphthongs. If a triphthong is allowed to be the nucleus of a
syllable in a lujvo, then "mliau" (meow) is one syllable, therefo= re invalid,
and "amliau" is valid. If there are no triphthongs, then "ml= iau" is valid,
and "amliau" breaks up. Either way, "mliaue" is valid.<= br> * The fu'irvlazba algorithm, applied to "jamo" with the three= -letter rafsi,
yields "lerndjamo", which is invalid. It has to be "lerldjam= o".
* The Book says that a cmevla can't contain "la", "lai&q= uot;, or "doi", unless
preceded by a consonant. This doesn't make sense: "lai" conta= ins "la",
and "la'i" isn't mentioned. My amendment is that a cmevla= can't
contain "la", "lai", "la'i", or "doi= " unless preceded by a consonant or
followed by a vowel or apostrophe. This means "laus" and "al= a'um" are both
valid. The dot side throws out the rule entirely, and puts pauses before al= l
cmevla.

Enough of this! It's too much for the beginners' list.

Pierre




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