From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Aug 20 07:17:09 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Me8Rw-0000PT-Dj for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:17:08 -0700 Received: from mail-fx0-f211.google.com ([209.85.220.211]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Me8Ro-0000F9-Tg for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:17:07 -0700 Received: by fxm7 with SMTP id 7so4333952fxm.34 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:16:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=E3QX17t0hoIzJttX8NEvgWJFRaD9LAH38LLZdWnPRek=; b=nN46nR1TclJ/aFPf/Rff+E9aWyy6udEQQpX+/UIZzcc6ueiqTJsRfnEa3bEGKopYqf e3MnyeZw18oEzcx6rJyrx1nFrK7lxTxSkMNiTDPGkZB8faIKEn3I9vS1r4HLh/c2D51N MHqFcpGIyETpOW+AKRGi5xTTUof3HWx2zqLwo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=JVo+6eeBHqWz2Yyf4P3p9a5EisBqed2HZ0g6z/eOd/sotEYjXWQ1QxHCa+yivIddon kHxCgO99onA37e2shk1IcHIBBrEoTG35qbSQWBDdbPJZFq3Ex/U3BSC4Ae8nhPQ5IML8 GZ0Ks5CuFGfTVM0c6L6YQfMatFodqM1gkf69M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.4.204 with SMTP id 12mr2153577fas.55.1250777813910; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:16:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8900cc410908200614l611200c5i5eb385ddd728adf8@mail.gmail.com> References: <8900cc410908200614l611200c5i5eb385ddd728adf8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:16:53 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: d55c8acfb53caa8a Message-ID: <4de8c3930908200716h4c67ede5nc6ae1af3252fed13@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Translate phrase from the Portal song From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2048 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jbotijlan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners 2009/8/20 Dmitry Shintyakov : > coi rodo mi'e dmitris .i mi ze'u cnino jbocli > Hello everybody, I am Dmitry, and I am probably the oldest Lojban beginner here. > > I was trying to translate a phrase from the Portal game song: "There's > no sense crying over every mistake, you just keep on trying till you > run out of cake". > > Here is the result of an almost hour of extensive dictionary search > and reading the CLL: > > na krinu lonu klaku badri le ro selsre > .i ko tolsti lonu troci ca'o lonu ralte le nabrkeiki > > There is what I don't like in this translation: > - "le ro selsre" is "all mistakes", not "every". coi dmitris. "every" (as well as "each") is distributive, which can be expressed with an outer quantifier "ro": ro le selsre. > Maybe it would be > better to say something like "every time you make a mistake", but how? > - "selsre" or "nulsre", what would be better for the "mistake"? "nulsre" is from "nutli srera" ("to neutrally err"?). "lo/le selsre" is the literal translation of "a mistake", but "make a mistake" can simply be "srera". "every time you make a mistake" can be "ro roi lo nu do srera". > - I failed to find an adequate translation for the "cake". Maybe, > cilmo titla bo nanba (cimtitnanba)? Are there any better translations? There are many types of cake. The one that firstly comes to my mind is something of "panje" (sponge) type. I think "cimtitnanba" is fine, but "titpanje" might also work. There is an experimental gismu I created with scoreGismu (a Pearl program) for "cake" sometime ago: darta (etymology: 蛋糕 -> dangao, रोटी -> rot, cake -> keik, pastel -> pastel, торт -> tort, كعكة -> karka) > Also, is "nabrkeiki" a valid fu'ivla? A valid Stage 3 fu'ivla, yes. > - The whole sentence "keep on trying till you run out of cake", as far > as I understand it correctly, means something like "Do not stop the > process of trying, until you meet the event of {there is no cake}", > and my translation is quite different from it. Maybe "ko troci co'u lo nu vi na [cake]". I might also add ".e'i" for "just ...". mu'o mi'e tijlan