From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Aug 20 21:11:22 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MeLTG-00078a-3W for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:11:22 -0700 Received: from mail-yw0-f172.google.com ([209.85.211.172]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MeLTC-00078E-6C for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:11:22 -0700 Received: by ywh2 with SMTP id 2so1372086ywh.2 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:11:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=/HSYBtOrpXnk8mtpd219XdwtQie8VpsUCJ1deqU379I=; b=OqE0foXA6zFJmwFZ3iKEC/RZcnuXoCLAMcwzEzJ/ukJGL+GBxyziYFcQ46w8Q0leKw YnRyQhKbLNL/trJiIr2S+hZ+X7IsqRBGS8A/HaTrlzmwBKL9IurwWf+osyh8XIk9qU76 tXMsB7wxt0mpc4sewnhl5vvW3Wi23KaZ6G1/E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=kxHm0TMYHOHJA4QTUoX22sPUGwgHmeUN9qdE2Q+TiWIJFLZm+ARRvvGAWhXWTdxYeA G/pYT54uvCFosOiRLZIZTdaq0gxHbbjo2v/juuk5dhzSfTYYBni1tK3JGZEmQEOdrASf eTlVxSGNpOOm+2XBW0jh7NO1b5Tkr8ZybF6is= Received: by 10.91.136.14 with SMTP id o14mr552948agn.47.1250827872057; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-10-132-215-217.uawifi.arizona.edu ([150.135.210.16]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 29sm1007247agd.55.2009.08.20.21.11.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <498A72E6-B86F-46F3-99A9-DA79093EF08F@choi.name> From: Joshua Choi To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <20090821021006.GA28775@sdf.lonestar.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Subject: [lojban-beginners] Reasoning for the apostrophe (Was Re: Re: proper pronunciation of apostrophe) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:11:09 -0700 References: <817821.10705.qm@web110504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20090820223413.GA28577@sdf.lonestar.org> <20090821021006.GA28775@sdf.lonestar.org> X-archive-position: 2075 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: joshua@choi.name Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Yes, but it refers to Chapter 4, which doesn't explicitly explain the reasoning. Whenever it mentions apostrophes, it's in something like "not including the apostrophe" or "not counting the apostrophe". I'm only guessing, but it sort of seems like the reasoning that "h" is represented by the apostrophe is to emphasize that it doesn't count as a letter in a lot of morphological rules. Is this right? On 20 August 2009, at 7:10 PM, Minimiscience wrote: > de'i li 20 pi'e 08 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Joshua Choi .fy. cusku zoi > skamyxatra. >> Just wondering, what reasoning was behind the decision to give the >> "h" >> sound a uniquely different symbol, the apostrophe? Was it to >> emphasize >> that it could represent any unused unvoiced fricative? Was it >> because it >> looked nicer in certain cmavo? > .skamyxatra > > Section 3.3 of the CLL states: > >> The apostrophe represents a phoneme similar to a short, breathy >> English >> ``h'', (IPA [h]). The letter ``h'' is not used to represent this >> sound for >> two reasons: primarily in order to simplify explanations of the >> morphology, >> but also because the sound is very common, and the apostrophe is a >> visually >> lightweight representation of it. The apostrophe sound is a >> consonant in >> nature, but is not treated as either a consonant or a vowel for >> purposes of >> Lojban morphology (word-formation), which is explained in Chapter >> 4. In >> addition, the apostrophe visually parallels the comma and the >> period, which >> are also used (in different ways) to separate syllables. > > mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. > > -- > no zo mi nenri zo bende > > >