From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Sep 07 06:10:00 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 07 Sep 2009 06:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mkdyq-0002ST-1z for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 06:10:00 -0700 Received: from mail-yw0-f192.google.com ([209.85.211.192]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mkdym-0002Rz-NG for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 06:09:59 -0700 Received: by ywh30 with SMTP id 30so3972163ywh.25 for ; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 06:09:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rDOfSWDjR3RDjZz7jvz9VA5eMVWlI47yo1i3EVo7ZAk=; b=rGQdaqplYIZDPH6oG/yFoyMaA0fBEmLu+D52Ce2qDR5k3au418Oib4xmUa5ftu1SZH uvHi9KNpWpiPDMg0No9MjC4nSI7yRmAn0o5Lgu1q5UeI5eiQwo2VK/sX4HRmb2dEK3NU kNqQOIrEs2ojdr1WxehGBHtzlC32NkkJ0/fHk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=C4/DpI9236Bcv65i3b19lDDj7F2RqxoSert704XaKuBokk13kjkivL8xkFOg82sj4U SKU/zkCsVEm1jTWUJ3TETx2eXqaSNSDnuPYb4rm6HTDdoMF0xVgshurXuWHjtOl0Eh1S 5WCRktEIZZ+cddJ25a5GjlTO6eH8v9UE6Xazo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.10.1 with SMTP id 1mr11282832agj.62.1252328988723; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 06:09:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9ada8ecd0909061413p69ee8803m6fb7160096c9378b@mail.gmail.com> References: <9ada8ecd0909060036m5027ae8h123217ef081c4bd0@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560909060711p19f4dba5vb1eb94dc877bebba@mail.gmail.com> <3E01A143-FB24-4D76-A9DB-0D6AA3065321@choi.name> <200909061340.09471.phma@phma.optus.nu> <9ada8ecd0909061413p69ee8803m6fb7160096c9378b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:09:48 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17560909070609r19c1e718ub51f1bd85abb662b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: A tanru question From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2229 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Squark Rabinovich wrote: > > However, consider the following example, from my mail about xorlo: lu'i ci > loi nanmu simxu lo nu damba . If I understand xorlo correctly, this > means "three groups of men fight against each other", where "each other" > means between the groups, not within them. Suppose we drop the lu'i . The > result is ci loi nanmu simxu lo nu damba . If we allow substituting masses > into the first place of sixmu , this might mean "three groups of men fight > within each other", that is, each group fights within itself. Thus an > ambiguity results. Maybe in simple unambiguous cases like mi'o ctuca > simxu we can stretch the rules a bit. For your two meanings, I would say: lo ci gunma be lo nanmu cu simxu lo nu damba Three groups of men fight each other. ci lo gunma be lo nanmu cu simxu lo nu damba Three groups of men fight within each other. In oher words, when talking about several groups is really needed, I think it's safer to be explicit, with a group word like "gunma", rather than rely on gadri. mu'o mi'e xorxes