From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Sep 18 12:50:04 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MojT2-0000KO-0L for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:50:04 -0700 Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no ([129.241.210.67]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MojSw-0000HU-5p for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:50:03 -0700 Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (unknown [IPv6:2001:700:300:2000:2a0:c9ff:feab:76e2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id A160994755 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:49:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (8.13.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id n8IJnHiS025231 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:49:17 +0200 Received: (from arj@localhost) by hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (8.13.8/8.13.1/Submit) id n8IJnAoV025230 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:49:10 +0200 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:49:10 +0200 From: Arnt Richard Johansen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: attempt at translation Message-ID: <20090918194910.GM2685@nvg.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NVG-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NVG-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: arj@nvg.ntnu.no X-archive-position: 2385 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arj@nvg.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 01:00:15PM -0400, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/18/2009 11:18:16 Eastern Daylight Time, > pretoriusjf@gmail.com writes: > > > > At a bit of a tangent: I looked up ki'e in jbovlaste, and saw it's > > defined as: > > > > >> vocative: thanks - no thanks to you. > >> > > I've seen this sort of thing in many other places (in jbovlaste), and > > never understand exactly the intended meaning is. Could someone please clarify > > for me whether ki'e means "thanks" or "no thanks to you", or if I'm just > > completely misunderstanding? > > > > This is indeed common in jbovlaste, and it's a flaw I would like to see > removed, preferably by simply expanding the entry to indicate which part of the > definition is meant and how to obtain the other meanings, i.e., by > mentioning "cu'i" and "nai". It is a known problem that these entries (which come from the cmavo list) are much too terse to be useful for much of anything, except possibly as a kind of memory hook in conjunction with looking things up in CLL. The BPFK is working on writing better cmavo definitions, that are intended to supplant the current definitions when they are done. The current draft for ki'e can be found here: http://lojban.com/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Vocatives -- Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I realized that a large part of my life from then on was going to be spent in finding mistakes in my own programs. -- Maurice Wilkes discovers debugging, 1949