From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Sep 19 08:18:52 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mp1i7-0003dh-Qf for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:18:52 -0700 Received: from mail-yw0-f171.google.com ([209.85.211.171]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mp1i3-0003cb-Va for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:18:51 -0700 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1so2182303ywh.25 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:18:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rDT/NAM+7l1QjpV4frV4wtBdlNAjh00HlZ+En2pfTYk=; b=Sl3uo7yHheCEwQ/pAcYRu/FDnsmn375IiYggGImmRzOHJ7GMCBV2IDH7JTz9vwHKKM kOa21wh7z/uGQJn8Zn8QZcizYmd6uo/QTOHo8yPGSIs9iBz+ek5jU/Tf3NRu/AlL/k4T zmQkTZuKDJWgqjlMyzhpCzA3U+1jZ3ORsjLAM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=MGUSpIgN3NFf6eQIKRVLEctD7sQKLGlb+G9b0R4WhbkWCmGEey5Kp7G3o8eMB9p1Nm r6xEWoiAQDj6hXqvWpmUvHwcL/f2jUvHm82eVHaJb71UkfI75nJCmo18gtUHCzxVe/vh 8jKgXwvu9JGTtIz8e4XX0ambK0qAb308RW/BA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.28.9 with SMTP id f9mr1889575agj.89.1253373521741; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:18:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4de8c3930909190542q3fde1353ib37419797f9da046@mail.gmail.com> References: <9ada8ecd0909190422y6984784eq8c0ed33df8199b84@mail.gmail.com> <200909190746.10598.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4de8c3930909190542q3fde1353ib37419797f9da046@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:18:41 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17560909190818t1d4a8f33t8482bf3085f62d41@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: only From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2389 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 9:42 AM, tijlan wrote: > 2009/9/19 Pierre Abbat : >> On Saturday 19 September 2009 07:22:51 Squark Rabinovich wrote: > >>> "Only John and Jane went to the moon" >> la djan. e la djein. po'o klama le lunra > > Wouldn't that Lojban mean "The only person who accompanied John in > going to the moon was Jane"? (".e" doesn't really imply anything about accompanying, it just says each of them went, maybe on separate trips.) > That is: > >  da .e [de] po'o broda = da .e fu'e po'o de fu'o broda > > rather than > >  [da .e de] po'o broda = fu'e po'o da .e de fu'o broda Yes, "po'o" as a post modifier is rather annoying, because the things one wants to modify often don't have terminators. The sentence really means "John went to the moon, and only Jane went to the moon", which suggests John is also called "Jane". One way around it in this case would be: la djan .e la djein vu'o goi ko'a po'o klama lo lunra or equivalently without having to use vu'o: ko'a po'o goi la djan .e la djein klama lo lunra Another approach to "only" is "selte'i": "x1 is/are the only one(s) with property x2 among x3." la djan cu selte'i lo ka klama lo lunra la djan jo'u la djein cu selte'i lo ka klama lo lunra lo se nelci cu selte'i lo ka ka'e vofli mu'o mi'e xorxes