From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Oct 05 05:45:37 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mumwa-0000B9-TO for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:45:37 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f186.google.com ([209.85.212.186]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MumwS-0000AZ-T0 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:45:36 -0700 Received: by vws16 with SMTP id 16so2436072vws.2 for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:45:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=vPSG4hC8SstVA/8OT+5fIWSJrcdoacaoV3BweTyrcSM=; b=TFA4fpkEkrxittDmfoMPtyL04JxMjw2iiZ5Nul4azJtxPkhuZvRPgdnHEzXBxlgVeH 3XjEHr0a5euNeh2iflcpOiU5JXhhUCHyHsFNy5v9j+qBCwRawm+iky+Lk/pBJgoYtwgo VLxCLjIBzhp8F23mCGzl7VZDKeBK+T984gXQ8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=WFCLFDf4oZiT/93gXOYXctIPcckGSKUN70yGSS06a4EPRC9ijbfytnDuzHl9S9MnSe 1AJ0BvLqXRxxfWI6nLdSJSqPHesDrqI++C09uAgTToa507n1Tfjb9pAvcFj0guJiYBRG yCHkgGh1qnfGTFyNEBX5nd/31Vtg3rRf+7lvI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.68.155 with SMTP id v27mr9778374vci.32.1254746722139; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:45:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <96f789a60910050447q7f476f89mda57aa07f9ac1607@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f1d42860910021120n1033c6a3wbef9131c23f2c9a0@mail.gmail.com> <27513e550910022003g4c4bb780s8c36f55c805feba0@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60910050447q7f476f89mda57aa07f9ac1607@mail.gmail.com> From: Oren Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 20:45:02 +0800 Message-ID: <27513e550910050545v53b8bcd4x6631ee8ead7c3d72@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: using 'se' in conversation To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b7cfea8051804752f7caa X-archive-position: 2442 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: get.oren@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0016363b7cfea8051804752f7caa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>The most literal translation of the English is "mi pu noroi viska da >>poi na se nelci be mi" (I have up-to-now 0-times seen something which >>it was not true it is liked by me) >> >> --gejyspa ki'esai .i mulno ...(is there a lujvo for "comprehensive" or "thorough?" =3Dp) that was just the explanation I was looking for! one follow up question regarding: .i mi pu noroi viska da poi na se nelci be mi (I have up-to-now 0-times seen something such that it's not true that said-thing is liked by me) ((I've never seen something I haven't liked)) ...if i wanted to make this sentence sound more chinese with a topic-commen= t structure, how close can we get the lojban word order to align to it? Chinese/English gloss =D2=BB=B8=F6=CE=D2=B2=BB=CF=B2=BB=B6=B5=C4=B6=AB=CE=F7=A3=AC=CE=D2=B4=D3=C0= =B4=C3=BB=D3=D0=BF=B4=B9=FD =D2=BB=B8=F6, =CE=D2 , =B2=BB , =CF=B2=BB=B6 , =B5=C4 , =B6=AB=CE=F7=A3=AC= =CE=D2 , =B4=D3=C0=B4 , =C3=BB=D3=D0 , =BF=B4=B9=FD yige, wo, bu , xihuan , de , dongxi =A3=ACwo , conglai , meiyou , kanguo a, I, not , like, [adjectival-phrase] , thing , =A3=AC, I , up-til-now , ha= ven't , seen I don't know how I can put 'I-do-not-like' *in front* of lojban's "da" ... here's my attempt at reversing the sentence ignoring that feature though: .i da poi na se nelci be mi cu be mi pu noroi se viska (something which is not liked by me, has by-me up-to-now 0-times been seen) .i mo'umi'e .ku'us. --0016363b7cfea8051804752f7caa Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>The most literal translation of the English is "mi pu noroi vi= ska da
>>poi na se nelci be mi" (I have up-to-now 0-times seen somethin= g which
>>it was not true it is liked by me)
>>
>>          --gejyspa

ki'esai .i= mulno  ...(is there a lujvo for "comprehensive" or "th= orough?" =3Dp)

that was just the explanation I was looking for= !

one follow up question regarding:

.i mi pu noroi viska da poi na se nelci be mi
(I have up-to-now 0-ti= mes seen something such that it's not true that said-thing is liked by = me)
((I've never seen something I haven't liked))

...if i= wanted to make this sentence sound more chinese with a topic-comment struc= ture, how close can we get the lojban word order to align to it?

Chinese/English gloss

=D2=BB=B8=F6=CE=D2=B2=BB=CF=B2=BB=B6=B5=C4= =B6=AB=CE=F7=A3=AC=CE=D2=B4=D3=C0=B4=C3=BB=D3=D0=BF=B4=B9=FD
=D2=BB=B8= =F6, =CE=D2 , =B2=BB , =CF=B2=BB=B6 , =B5=C4 , =B6=AB=CE=F7=A3=AC=CE=D2 , = =B4=D3=C0=B4 , =C3=BB=D3=D0 , =BF=B4=B9=FD
yige, wo, bu , xihuan , de , = dongxi =A3=ACwo , conglai , meiyou , kanguo
a, I, not , like, [adjectiva= l-phrase] , thing , =A3=AC, I , up-til-now , haven't , seen

I don't know how I can put 'I-do-not-like' *in front* of lo= jban's "da" ... here's my attempt at reversing the senten= ce ignoring that feature though:

.i da poi na se nelci be mi cu be m= i pu noroi se viska
(something which is not liked by me, has by-me up-to-now 0-times been seen)=

.i mo'umi'e .ku'us.
--0016363b7cfea8051804752f7caa--