From blindbravado@gmail.com Mon Feb 08 20:52:39 2010 Received: from mail-ew0-f223.google.com ([209.85.219.223]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Nei5T-0007vW-E1 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:52:39 -0800 Received: by ewy23 with SMTP id 23so165377ewy.4 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:52:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=uAWQ9H0/GpdnsgdD24oPcFgY3brhDhHF3oGdLCgMxd4=; b=nOiXxJBNZHgF8Axc6rl49ulgea4RGk21+Fk+E5QZDL0r+yzsulN+V0yMUKeZt1Av4U Q3fhg2KOPEYRUYogzTFCOlPtERstGtlJbUqXEJJHoi1PER0V8XQLfJPDHtZVMSy2uT1Q D7hvFU0APIu+E8SGZQUp7fj+pdnF0m2r+joow= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=oT0p7zgtb/VPx1HFVNS352T9Y5wu6jieQYUvnMUURYvNblfyoqSp9bwGglJHR9siEz wl5PV2HZyicWVIfqDMKQDYam2479t/z9rq9brLGBaWoSKHg07O/S8mDOcT++0Ehl+9MI TkrwrgmvZMP/ZrVy3iBR4L27l1GB7Z4LiBBiY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.109.77 with SMTP id i13mr1764494ebp.82.1265691148340; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:52:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <249d5b951002082048m3835c59bq297ed1bb9e09c09e@mail.gmail.com> References: <218950.62113.qm@web46104.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <925d17561002081358if4eddacl7ccc619f0da8af3a@mail.gmail.com> <715718.90598.qm@web46101.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <249d5b951002081740h256fa074h5cef4ff8990ee2ed@mail.gmail.com> <1f1080831002081820q228ee8efo4473981694ef46a1@mail.gmail.com> <249d5b951002082047n6c0a3ed1s50249d2a7f28cb6d@mail.gmail.com> <249d5b951002082048m3835c59bq297ed1bb9e09c09e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 23:52:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1f1080831002082052j62277ba8md151bef9aeb15d05@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Help! The Xorlo are attacking! From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cdf93ea4acf74047f23af86 --000e0cdf93ea4acf74047f23af86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ah I see. My mistake was in assuming that la and le were in the same selma'o. mu'omi'e latros. On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:48 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: > but AIUI xorlo eschews all but "lo" for selma'o LE. > > stevo > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:47 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: > >> I was very careful to exclude selma'o LA. Yes, "le" is still more specific >> than "lo", but AIUI >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: >> >>> I don't understand it going quite THAT far. I'm pretty sure la is still >>> normal for cmene, and le IS still more "specific" than lo, if that >>> specificity is wanted. Maybe not, though; I've only just recently started >>> learning about xorlo after previously using LfB's version of lo. >>> >>> mu'omi'e latros. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:40 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: >>> >>>> As I understand xorlo, lo is for any and all instances of gadri from >>>> selma'o LE, not just when one is unsure of which to use. In other words, it >>>> makes all the other cmavo in LE obsolete. >>>> >>>> stevo >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Whipsnerd Lhooser < >>>> synaptic.explosion@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you xorxes. So, allow me to re-iterate: >>>>> >>>>> xorlo simply refers to the idea that in an instance where a lojbanist >>>>> is unsure of the proper gadri to be utilized, the default is lo. >>>>> >>>>> gadri is the lojban equivalent of an English article (I do understand >>>>> the principle of malglico, however I'm using this for reference) >>>>> >>>>> la: Used only for cmene; Is the article which immediately proceeds a >>>>> cmene / it designates the next word as a cmene. >>>>> >>>>> le: A gadri which denotes a specific thing/instance which the speaker >>>>> has in mind. (le is optional and may be substituted for lo) >>>>> >>>>> lo: A gadri which introduces a thing/instance. (Specific or >>>>> non-specific) >>>>> >>>>> loi: A gadri which says that an attribute/action that is being applied >>>>> to a group is being applied to that group as a whole, not necessarily to the >>>>> individuals comprising that group. >>>>> >>>>> Is this more correct? >>>>> ** >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > --000e0cdf93ea4acf74047f23af86 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah I see. My mistake was in assuming that la and le were in the same selma&= #39;o.

mu'omi'e latros.

On= Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:48 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
but AIUI xor= lo eschews all but "lo" for selma'o LE.
=A0
stevo

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:47 PM, MorphemeAddict = <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
I was very careful to exclude selma'o LA. Yes, "le" is s= till more specific than "lo", but AIUI

=A0
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't under= stand it going quite THAT far. I'm pretty sure la is still normal for c= mene, and le IS still more "specific" than lo, if that specificit= y is wanted. Maybe not, though; I've only just recently started learnin= g about xorlo after previously using LfB's version of lo.

mu'omi'e latros.=20


On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:40 PM, MorphemeAddict <= span dir=3D"ltr"><lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
As I understand xorlo, lo is for any and all instances of gadri from s= elma'o LE, not just when one is unsure of which to use. In other words,= it makes all the other cmavo in LE obsolete.
=A0
stevo

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Whipsnerd Lhoose= r <synaptic.explosion@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank you xorxes. So, allow me to re-iterate:

xorlo simply refe= rs to the idea that in an instance where a lojbanist is unsure of the prope= r gadri to be utilized, the default is lo.

gadri is the lojban equiv= alent of an English article (I do understand the principle of malglico, how= ever I'm using this for reference)

la: Used only for cmene; Is the article which immediately proceeds a cm= ene / it designates the next word as a cmene.

le: A gadri which deno= tes a specific thing/instance which the speaker has in mind. (le is optiona= l and may be substituted for lo)

lo: A gadri which introduces a thing/instance. (Specific or non-specifi= c)

loi: A gadri which says that an attribute/action that is being = applied to a group is being applied to that group as a whole, not necessari= ly to the individuals comprising that group.

Is this more correct?







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