From adam@cec.wustl.edu Tue Feb 09 08:17:46 2010 Received: from express.cec.wustl.edu ([128.252.21.16] helo=mail.cec.wustl.edu) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NesmT-0000o3-C9 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:17:45 -0800 Received: from grid.cec.wustl.edu (grid.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.20.97]) by mail.cec.wustl.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5351E8018; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:17:34 -0600 (CST) Received: by grid.cec.wustl.edu (Postfix, from userid 29287) id 3E40F1F7876; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:17:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grid.cec.wustl.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 344861F7838; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:17:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:17:34 -0600 (CST) From: adam@cec.wustl.edu To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Help! The Xorlo are attacking! In-Reply-To: <425e4ac21002081956jb0e0de5n98a1a5446c4f7609@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <218950.62113.qm@web46104.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <425e4ac21002081956jb0e0de5n98a1a5446c4f7609@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Mon, 8 Feb 2010, Stela Selckiku wrote: >> lei: > > It's best to think of the -i on the end separately from the e/o/a, > when it comes to this trio lei/loi/lai. In all three cases you have > the same semantics as le/lo/la, with the difference that you're > talking about a mass acting together instead of each of the things > described doing the action separately. > > lo ci nanmu cu bevri lo pipno > The three men each carried the piano. Each one of them carried the > whole piano! Perhaps they took turns. Probably not what you meant to > say! > > loi ci nanmu cu bevri lo pipno > The mass of three men carried the piano, Still a hard job, but > perhaps manageable. Under xorlo, the inner quantifier isn't necessarily distributive. So while what you say about {loi ci nanmu cu bevri lo pipno} is true, the distributive (each of them carries a piano) is with ci lo nanmu cu bevri lo pipno The {lo ci nanmu} version could mean either. >> lai: > > I have almost never seen this article seriously used. A mass of those > named? So, like, the Smith family all carry a piano together, "lai > .smit. cu bevri lo pipno"?? It doesn't seem to come up! I think it can be used where the name applies to the group as a whole. I've used it in the past for sports teams and such. -- Adam Lopresto http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/ Her date was pleasant enough, but she knew that if her life was a movie this guy would be buried in the credits as something like "Second Tall Man." (Russell Beland, Springfield)