From 3Ff6wSwoJEBAzz11q2ryq8w2qy1.s4214zrq3-ruwy33u78w44w1uw74A58.s42@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 12:23:21 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3Ff6wSwoJEBAzz11q2ryq8w2qy1.s4214zrq3-ruwy33u78w44w1uw74A58.s42@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwKYN-0006IC-8r for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:23:20 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf8412762ywh.28 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:23:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Zgzeirjoj9AziQUNjjRlZHCThtW3vVnDS0XJVw8xVzY=; b=coW9l6LEyI3Yzb+OxU1dC886iMfGI0sd0lMQe7mJjhlXo7hRS6H8cd0ueBBkjj7H++ rRBC7tgWWVp1Td35ceBbfi2IPZSFY0J0fvzjJx7u/veCCwTXFhm6sr6fStNte0ywfe+K mAFFkrY8kMXXIj2mET6jIHA4pgk2x7b9/jCPw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Riyj4R1OTJDw10VYFoflaqKxT6HyDhSPaHrLNS52cwNMg2mDvSVei9PYLq9Fd1B8QZ mWUP1Aprje7j7b6/4ywQqhL6qT/nAIg9zPDHdXUfW/wa86qHQnytsoLfJKgzoPZZUSHl SMBfa91pX4u1xlwT1+RSb7iDY1BpuBsA0wVaA= Received: by 10.91.160.33 with SMTP id m33mr398602ago.54.1269890581959; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:23:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.50.148 with SMTP id z20ls59905ibf.2.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.190.7 with SMTP id dg7mr343947ibb.23.1269890580066; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.190.7 with SMTP id dg7mr343945ibb.23.1269890580003; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f53.google.com (mail-vw0-f53.google.com [209.85.212.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si584541iwn.1.2010.03.29.12.22.58; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.53; Received: by mail-vw0-f53.google.com with SMTP id 10so1515590vws.12 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:22:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.86.12 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:22:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <96f789a61003291044s3fe0f0a3u15493fcc855081a1@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f1080831003101520r1e87f21cuacb4cd23fa9a2d4c@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c161003101532q3bf8ca8exc72b1fb3c5bcc9c@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a61003291044s3fe0f0a3u15493fcc855081a1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:22:58 -0300 Received: by 10.229.235.193 with SMTP id kh1mr3395430qcb.77.1269890578594; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17561003291222m3aee5315xd909234ae2b92f38@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Duration questions From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/t/8a645652df58adca X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/msg/828a19fbf5963f3f Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 7:24 PM, tijlan wrote: >> >> Why would {ze'a lo cabdei} not mean "a time interval which is medium >> relative to the length of today", referring to about 12 hours, instead >> of "with today (24 hours) as the whole interval, the length of which I >> consider medium/unspecified"? Then we could just use {ze'e} in asking >> "To what does the whole interval of your having been living in this >> house amount?" If the answer is {lo cabdei}, the modal remains to be >> {ze'e} independent of the speakers' measurement. > > =A0Take heart. =A0That's exactly how I use ze'a and its kin. =A0Although = I > have no idea why your message took so long to get in my inbox... I also got this post only when Robin moved the list. I was going to respond but then I forgot. Three reasons: Reason one: parallelism with zi/za/zu. If you accept that ZI tags the full time displacement magnitude, it is only natural for ZEhA to tag the full duration magnitude. Similarly for VA and VEhA. There is no "total displacement" equivalent to ze'e/ve'e in ZI/VA. (This reason does not apply to those who don't use ZI/VA to tag displacement magnitudes.) Reason two: consistency with the rest of the tags. "ze'u broda" says that broda takes a long time. "broda ze'u ko'a" should say the same thing, with more precision as to what a "long time" is, it should not shift to meaning that broda takes the best part of some interval, perhaps not a long time at all if the interval in question happens to be a short interval. Reason three: it is easy to get the fractional meaning by other means: "ze'a pi so'u ko'a", "ze'a pi so'i ko'a", "ze'a pi so'a ko'a", etc. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.